Schedule with grand prix

Debates and discussions on the various race scheduling methods that can be used and their fairness and accuracy in determining the winners.
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rookie20
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Schedule with grand prix

Post by rookie20 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:53 am

I am sorry if I am posting in the wrong spot, this is my first year running the computer for area kub kar races and trying to make sure I am prepared for the races.Does any group allow warm up race prior to the start the main race? (to make sure the cubs have no issues with there cars). Is so how would you do so using Grand Prix software version 13.
Second question (last year we had 65 cubs participating in the races) so I assume we will have the same number this year, Is there a way to run six races per a youth.
Last year we purchased a 4 lane best track along with the champ timer. If I had each youth had 8 races (4 lanes X2) =8 x 65 youth / 4 lanes would equal 130 races. That would be 2 hours and 10 min if we had 60 seconds between each heat. If we run down six times = 6 x 65 youth / 4 lanes = 98 min, this is a lot less time, I am worried about the cubs getting bored
Any help would be appreciated

Glenn

P.s. I purchased Grand prix software version 14 yesterday, not sure if this make a different



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Vitamin K
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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by Vitamin K » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:14 am

rookie20 wrote:I am sorry if I am posting in the wrong spot, this is my first year running the computer for area kub kar races and trying to make sure I am prepared for the races.Does any group allow warm up race prior to the start the main race? (to make sure the cubs have no issues with there cars). Is so how would you do so using Grand Prix software version 13.
Second question (last year we had 65 cubs participating in the races) so I assume we will have the same number this year, Is there a way to run six races per a youth.
Last year we purchased a 4 lane best track along with the champ timer. If I had each youth had 8 races (4 lanes X2) =8 x 65 youth / 4 lanes would equal 130 races. That would be 2 hours and 10 min if we had 60 seconds between each heat. If we run down six times = 6 x 65 youth / 4 lanes = 98 min, this is a lot less time, I am worried about the cubs getting bored
Any help would be appreciated

P.s. I purchased Grand prix software version 14 yesterday, not sure if this make a different
For test runs, I would suggest turning the timer off and allowing cubs to bring their car to the track -- one at a time! -- and run down a single lane to make sure their car rolls properly. No permitting cubs to pre-race ahead of the races! You'd probably want somebody in charge of watching the track.

A problem with doing six runs per cub on a 4-lane track is that it means that you won't have lane equality. If your number of runs per car is a multiple of the number of lanes you have, you can make sure that each car runs down each lane the same number of times. If you don't have this, then cars that run more runs on faster lanes or less on slow lanes will have an advantage (and vice-versa).

If you get a good staging team put together (1 person putting the cars for the next heat into a staging box, 1 person actually loading cars onto the track, and two people retrieving cars after the run), I think you can shave down your time between heats. Printing a copy of the schedule for the staging team to reference is highly recommended!

If you have the Pro version of the software, you can use Master Scheduling, to mix up the heats, which can help keep the kids engaged.



rookie20
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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by rookie20 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:47 am

Thank you for the quick response, One of the reason we bought the best track is to reduce/eliminate differences in the lanes. We tested cars last year after setup and there is virtually no difference between the lanes. I do understand the simplicity of running each car down each lane twice and we may end up running this way, but if we ended up with more youth It would be nice to have them run more than 4 races

Glenn



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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by Vitamin K » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:51 am

rookie20 wrote:Thank you for the quick response, One of the reason we bought the best track is to reduce/eliminate differences in the lanes. We tested cars last year after setup and there is virtually no difference between the lanes. I do understand the simplicity of running each car down each lane twice and we may end up running this way, but if we ended up with more youth It would be nice to have them run more than 4 races
I think it's impossible to have perfectly even lanes. Even the league-races, when you watch them, will have a lane that you'll be able to pick out as the "slow lane". Minute differences, like graphite on the track, or slight variances in the level of the floor can all affect lane performance. I sympathize with your situation, but would have to caution that if you don't run all cars on all lanes equally, you're opening up the door for possible disputes.



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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by rookie20 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:09 am

I understand your point, since we have 4 lanes we would always need a combination of 4 races per cub. If there is an odd number of cars (divisible by 4) will some of the heats not run on all 4 lanes, to maintain equal number of car runs.
The main issue is not knowing how many youths will show up for the race. I would like to give each cub 8 races, have an intermission where we hand out awards for best design, most creative and so on. We would then race the top 20 with 4 races and finally the top 10 with 4 races. Does this sound fair?

Glenn



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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by gpraceman » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:21 am

130 + 20 + 10 = 160 heats

That's quite a few heats. With that many racers and wanting to do follow on rounds, I would recommend only doing once per lane in the first round. Parents do appreciate a race that doesn't take so long.

65 + 20 +10 = 95 heats

That's a more reasonable number of heats. However, that's a bit many heats to have the kids load their own cars to the track. That can be done in a reasonable time with an adult loading the cars and a race crew that's organized to keep the cars flowing to the starting line. See the "How can I speed up my race?" FAQ.

To get some racer participation you can have them start each heat. I have the racer in the first lane come up and start the heat. In the races that I have done that, the racers have enjoyed it and stayed more engaged in the race.


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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

rookie20
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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by rookie20 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:00 am

How many races after the original group has finished is required. Is an additional 8 race to many?
The most important part to me is the kids have fun and are not bored.
I know last year we did 6 races for each youth, and two warm up races. I was not in charge of the computer so I am not sure how the race schedule was developed.

Glenn



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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by gpraceman » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:26 am

Are you scoring by times or by points? If by times, you don't really need that middle round.


Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by rookie20 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:44 am

Yes I was going to score by times, I think it is a more accurate way of determining the fastest cars with the least amount of races. That is why I would like to run more than 4 races but not sure if the extended time (as you suggested above) starts to affect the cubs fun factor. I know last year we were quite good with limiting time between races. I think we were under a minute between races.
We purchase 3 of your holding/staging trays last year and have purchased an additional 3 trays this year. These trays greatly speed up our races.



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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by rookie20 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:29 am

Is it possible for Grand Prix software to run different amount of heats then the number of lanes. Since we have a 4 lane track can the software run 5, 6 or 7 runs for each cub or does it have to be a multiple of the number of track lanes. Multiples of our track would be 4 or 8 runs
Thanks for your help
Glenn



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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by gpraceman » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:15 am

See the "Can we schedule racers to not run down each lane of the track?" FAQ at http://grandprix-software-central.com/s ... ategory_32


Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

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Stan Pope
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Re: Schedule with grand prix

Post by Stan Pope » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:39 am

rookie20 wrote:Is it possible for Grand Prix software to run different amount of heats then the number of lanes. Since we have a 4 lane track can the software run 5, 6 or 7 runs for each cub or does it have to be a multiple of the number of track lanes. Multiples of our track would be 4 or 8 runs
Thanks for your help
Glenn
If you chose to use 3 lanes instead of 4, then 6 run schedules work! However, there would still be twice as many heats as you have cars entered, and the time would be nearly as long as if you ran a 4-lane schedule with 8 runs per car.

For large groups, we stagger the start time for each age group. For instance, Webelos 2 start inspection at 9 am and racing at 9:30, Webelos 1 start inspection at 9:30 and racing at 10:00, etc. Optionally, invite age group winners to a "King of the Hill" (or "Race of Champions") after all groups are finished.


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