To True or not to True, that is the question!

[RACER X]

Re: hole placement in the hub. These wheels are injection molded. Molds are made to fine tolerances because there parts have to fit closely.

I believe that type of material, production rate and quality of the mold pockets plays a great part in the quality of the wheels and with the B.S.A. wheels there is a large variance. We have found that there are a couple of mold pocket numbers that provide a excellent wheel and there are several that produce a consistant piece of junk.

I know that there are a few mold numbers in the B.S.A. wheels that Randy at Max V will not even sell, they are that bad every time.

As far as mandrels go, I have found that you need square shoulder to index from and provide your driving force, a centering cone of some type to provide parallelism from the hub and a screw of some type to provide a bit of clamping force. You don,t want to slip.

[Jungle Jim]

In our Council we to try discourage any "lathe" work. "Sand to true" is allowed as long as you stay within the rules.

[Stan Pope]

In our Council we to try discourage any "lathe" work. "Sand to true" is allowed as long as you stay within the rules.

In absence of tool retract lines on the tread surface, how do you differentiate "sanded" vs. "lathed" during inspection?

[Jungle Jim]

In our Council we to try discourage any "lathe" work. "Sand to true" is allowed as long as you stay within the rules.

In absence of tool retract lines on the tread surface, how do you differentiate "sanded" vs. "lathed" during inspection?

As I said - "discourage" lathe work. There has to be some degree of trust and empathy. We want Scouts and Parents to work together on these cars with handily accessible tools. A well, minimally machined polished wheel would be difficult to differentiate from a sanded polished one. What we are trying to stop here is, and it says so in the rules, excessive elimination of material from the wheels. As such, what you must look for is tread thickness.

[Stan Pope]

As I said - "discourage" lathe work. There has to be some degree of trust and empathy. We want Scouts and Parents to work together on these cars with handily accessible tools. A well, minimally machined polished wheel would be difficult to differentiate from a sanded polished one. What we are trying to stop here is, and it says so in the rules, excessive elimination of material from the wheels. As such, what you must look for is tread thickness.

Isn't it better to set rules that specify results, which you can inspect (such as tread thickness), rather than process, which you usually can't inspect.

That said, I don't disagree at all with your goal of parent and child working together. In my shop, that is a must for all visitors! I enforce it to the point of restraining even a small-town cop who wanted to help his sons too much! For example, "You help him by guiding his hands while he works the first axle. Then watch over his shoulder while he works the rest of them!" It works with Tigers and it works with autistic youngsters. And, I love it when their work beats out what appear to be "dad-built" beauties, which is most of the time (even in the district races).

[Da Graphite Kid]

Stan, I could not agree with you more. I can tell which fathers use the hands-in-hands method of helping thier sons and which build most if not all of their son's pwd car. I do this by their reaction when I tell them that: "in my shop, a Webelos should be able to fully build their own pinewood derby car" (with supervision of course!). I only apply this hard and fast rule to my own sons but it shows what a kid is capable of - given some three years of pwd car building experience.

At no time will a Cub Scout go outside and play while his father/partner builds his car for him.

Da Graphite Kid

[ExtremePWD]

Right on guys! A guiding hand where appropriate only. The scout should be given a chance to try each step before the guiding hand comes out. Even a tiger cub can make the bulk of his car if the design is kept simple. A lot of my development is process related. There may be a high tech way to do something that requires a lot of skill beyond the scouts ability but I look for innovative ways to achieve most of the results with easy processes. There's a new tool on the market that says it requires adult strength to operate it. I have ordered it but not before I concepted a way for a young scout to operate it. I have already built the adapter and should be receiving the tool soon so I can have my boys test it out. They will also get a physics lesson on how the adapter works.

[Da Graphite Kid]

.. and of course you are going to share all with us when it is tested right?

Da Graphite Kid

[ExtremePWD]

Stay tuned! I am hoping to have the experiments completed by next weekend.

[Jungle Jim]

Isn't it better to set rules that specify results, which you can inspect (such as tread thickness), rather than process, which you usually can't inspect.

Very few are the cars that fall into the category of "cheater". Our rules do indeed specify results - some exact and some inferred - but mostly concise. When that rare car does come along, those "modifications" made which would give a distinct advantage are obvious. Only if at every level of racing you had personnel not only properly equipped, but also properly trained to inspect every caveat would absolute rules be prudent. In theory this is possible, but sadly we don't live in a theoretical world. And personally I'm not going to argue with a father over .001".

[Jungle Jim]

And, I love it when their work beats out what appear to be "dad-built" beauties, which is most of the time (even in the district races).

Had one just last year. Scout did NO shaping to the body what so ever, added weight and polished wheels and axles. He won his Pack race and came in 3rd at District Not only was it cool (IMO) to see, but his car quickly became a crowd favorite.

[Jungle Jim]

I can tell which fathers use the hands-in-hands method of helping thier sons and which build most if not all of their son's pwd car.

Especially when the Scout goes up to the table to get his car, and he doesn't know which one is his.

[RACER X]

I can tell which fathers use the hands-in-hands method of helping thier sons and which build most if not all of their son's pwd car.

Especially when the Scout goes up to the table to get his car, and he doesn't know which one is his.

This is why this place is full of children asking for help and not adults debating over how to build a car, RIGHT!!!

[Stan Pope]

This is why this place is full of children asking for help and not adults debating over how to build a car, RIGHT!!!

We can hope that most of us will take what we learn here and go teach it to some youngsters! (I will! They are already on my calendar!)