Dead-On Alignment
- TurtlePowered
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Dead-On Alignment
If wheels do not run true, left to right, is it even possible to achieve dead-on alignment?
- Stan Pope
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
Rolling the wheels individually on the slightly inclined test surface is the first step in my alignment process. If the wheels do not roll straight individually, then my process will probably not converge.TurtlePowered wrote:If wheels do not run true, left to right, is it even possible to achieve dead-on alignment?
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
- Da Graphite Kid
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
Stan, what sort of "test surface" are we talking about here?
What type of material and preparation?
What is the length?
How high do you raise one end?
What do you use to ensure that the wheel is straight to begin the test?
I was thinking of using a 4 foot long section of 3/4" MDF (medium density fiberboard) since this stuff is so flat (and because I can't find any straight lumber). The dinner table is off limits after giving it a fine dusting of graphite a few years back... ... and I thought we had taken enough precautions by covering it with plastic! I could add a couple of snap-line chaulk marks as guide lines that the wheel would have to keep between and to use as visual references. To make sure the wheel starts straight, I'm thinking of ripping another piece of MDF as a guide with the thickness reduced on side that is contacting the inside edge of wheel under hub. Than I could use another piece of MDF on the edge of that to make sure the guide piece is straight with the edge of the test surface. All testing would, of course, be done after all wheel preparations where completed.
What can I say, we don't have our derby restrictions - I mean rules - yet so I can't start building a car yet. Besides, I've got a chopped up sheet of the MDF laying around that my wife has accused me of buying when I didn't need it!
Da Graphite Kid
What type of material and preparation?
What is the length?
How high do you raise one end?
What do you use to ensure that the wheel is straight to begin the test?
I was thinking of using a 4 foot long section of 3/4" MDF (medium density fiberboard) since this stuff is so flat (and because I can't find any straight lumber). The dinner table is off limits after giving it a fine dusting of graphite a few years back... ... and I thought we had taken enough precautions by covering it with plastic! I could add a couple of snap-line chaulk marks as guide lines that the wheel would have to keep between and to use as visual references. To make sure the wheel starts straight, I'm thinking of ripping another piece of MDF as a guide with the thickness reduced on side that is contacting the inside edge of wheel under hub. Than I could use another piece of MDF on the edge of that to make sure the guide piece is straight with the edge of the test surface. All testing would, of course, be done after all wheel preparations where completed.
What can I say, we don't have our derby restrictions - I mean rules - yet so I can't start building a car yet. Besides, I've got a chopped up sheet of the MDF laying around that my wife has accused me of buying when I didn't need it!
Da Graphite Kid
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
I'm thinking about using a piece of parque flooring that is around 4' long or the leaf of our kitchen table. The parque I could mark up since I just found that. The leaf my wife would probably shoot me if it use permanent marker on.
- Da Graphite Kid
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
...or banish you to your workshop!I'm thinking about using a piece of parque flooring that is around 4' long or the leaf of our kitchen table. The parque I could mark up since I just found that. The leaf my wife would probably shoot me if it use permanent marker on.
Wait, that isn't a bad thing now is it? I've got seven derby kits, tools, sandpaper and paint out there. All I need is some food and water and I'm set!
Da Graphite Kid
- Stan Pope
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
My "test surface": Kitchen table made of maple, I think.Da Graphite Kid wrote:Stan, what sort of "test surface" are we talking about here?
What type of material and preparation?
What is the length?
How high do you raise one end?
What do you use to ensure that the wheel is straight to begin the test?
Preparation: Wipe away all peanut butter, jelly, butter, and anything else that nearly blind Mama might have missed. Feel with flat of hand for anything that the cleanup might have missed. Wipe wheel treads with a soft clean cloth. Wash the wheels in mild detergent, rinse and dry if you tried rolling them on the table before you wiped off the peanut butter.
Length: Typical kitchen table width ... 40"? This runs with the grain of the wood, and has some join lines that are a handy reference.
How high: I have some small wedges cut from 2X4 that I slip under the legs to level the table end-to-end and raise one side around a half inch. (It is a pure joy to see a car smoothly accelerate down that slope!)
How straight to begin with: Don't worry... you should be able to tell if it rolls in an arc (because of conical tread) or if it wobbles side to side (because of tread irregularities) as it rolls. Retest "wobble" results to make sure that it is the wheel and not the table. A speck of dust or a bread crumb can cause significant wobble. Now, a "straight line" is just an "arc with infinite radius". Don't worry about arcs of large radius. If you can see the wheel curve in its path across the table, then rework or replace it.
After an alignment session, I use a cloth with a small amount of mineral spirits to clean off the table top. This is excellent for removing graphite traces. Then, wash the table top with mild detergent to remove traces of mineral spirits. Mama should be happy then.
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
- Stan Pope
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
"Qualify" your test surfaces by repeated tests. If one wheel rolls inconsistently then there may be a problem of surface inconsistency. If several wheels roll consistently, but not in a straight line, then you may have deformation (e.g. sag) in the surface.TurtlePowered wrote:I'm thinking about using a piece of parque flooring that is around 4' long or the leaf of our kitchen table. The parque I could mark up since I just found that. The leaf my wife would probably shoot me if it use permanent marker on.
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
- TurtlePowered
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
How far should a wheel be able to travel without major detours?Stan Pope wrote:"Qualify" your test surfaces by repeated tests. If one wheel rolls inconsistently then there may be a problem of surface inconsistency. If several wheels roll consistently, but not in a straight line, then you may have deformation (e.g. sag) in the surface.TurtlePowered wrote:I'm thinking about using a piece of parque flooring that is around 4' long or the leaf of our kitchen table. The parque I could mark up since I just found that. The leaf my wife would probably shoot me if it use permanent marker on.
2' x 1" off mark?
- Da Graphite Kid
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
Stan,
Thanks for the info on your test set-up. I guess I was thinking of rolling the wheels too fast! Rolling the wheels on a small incline would be better to show if they will roll straight or not. Rolling them at a fast pace may not allow you to see any wobble.
As for mineral spirits to clean the table with: I think I'll just stick with my MDF. If I mess it up, s'okay. If I mess the table up, like TurtlePowered: I may be shot (table was a gift from her sister)!
Da Graphite Kid
Thanks for the info on your test set-up. I guess I was thinking of rolling the wheels too fast! Rolling the wheels on a small incline would be better to show if they will roll straight or not. Rolling them at a fast pace may not allow you to see any wobble.
As for mineral spirits to clean the table with: I think I'll just stick with my MDF. If I mess it up, s'okay. If I mess the table up, like TurtlePowered: I may be shot (table was a gift from her sister)!
Da Graphite Kid
- Stan Pope
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
Yes, the gentle slope causes actions to take place in slow motion!Da Graphite Kid wrote:Stan,
Thanks for the info on your test set-up. I guess I was thinking of rolling the wheels too fast! Rolling the wheels on a small incline would be better to show if they will roll straight or not. Rolling them at a fast pace may not allow you to see any wobble.
Da Graphite Kid
I think you want better than that. The reason is that the alignment method depends on observing a wheel deflection of less than 1/8" in about a foot of travel, and being able to attribute that deflection to axle orientation rather than wheel or work surface defects.TurtlePowered wrote:How far should a wheel be able to travel without major detours? 2' x 1" off mark?
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
We use a 4 foot long, 1 foot wide white laminated shelving board to check alignment. I installed 2 tee nuts at one end and a single tee nut at the other. I run long screws through the tee nuts to create a 3 point contact with the floor. I permanently marked the surface with multiple lines the full length. The screws provide fine adjustment side to side and also adjusts the slope angle. I check level by rolling a ball bearing down the surface and adjust until it runs straight with the lines.
- Stan Pope
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
That is an excellent alternative for a kitchen table! Probably easier to adjust for level, too! Nice work.ExtremePWD wrote:We use a 4 foot long, 1 foot wide white laminated shelving board to check alignment. I installed 2 tee nuts at one end and a single tee nut at the other. I run long screws through the tee nuts to create a 3 point contact with the floor. I permanently marked the surface with multiple lines the full length. The screws provide fine adjustment side to side and also adjusts the slope angle. I check level by rolling a ball bearing down the surface and adjust until it runs straight with the lines.
When you set up, how much slope to you use?
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
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Re: Dead-On Alignment
The normal setup is about 1" rise for the 48" run which is approximately 1.2 degrees. It seems to work pretty well for alignment checks.