Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

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Davhamm
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Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by Davhamm »

Ok, The girlscout races are always a bit less competitive (though some want to win, including my kid). Rules are never the best.

She comes home with the box her troop leader got her. Its a new kit with old wheels. I can only guess that means we will have a mix at this years race... So what do we do?

Rules on wheels:
7.1. Wheels included with the Pinewood Derby kit distributed by the troop, or identical
wheels, must be used. NOTE: Wheels included with pre-formed kits are usually
not legal – if you have questions, check with the Race Director prior to attaching
them to the car.
7.2. Wheels may be smoothed to remove irregularities left by the molding process.
Diameter and width may not be significantly modified. You should be able to see
the lip on the outer edge of the wheel, and the mold line on the inner edge of the
wheel after it is smoothed.
7.3. Material may not be added to the wheel.
7.4. Wheels may be lubricated with dry graphite only. Liquid oils are not allowed.
7.5. Bearings, washers or any other device intended to reduce friction between the
wheel and axle may not be added to the wheel.

Plus 9 pics showing cupped/ridged/grooved/narrowed/Resized/rounded/peaked and tapered all of which are illegal.


Options I see:
1) Clean up the old wheels and race them
2) go get a set of new wheels clean them and race them
3) get a set and mix them if anyone thinks this would be advantageous.

I'm leaning towards 2.
Fatdaddy
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by Fatdaddy »

Davhamm wrote:Ok, The girlscout races are always a bit less competitive (though some want to win, including my kid). Rules are never the best.

She comes home with the box her troop leader got her. Its a new kit with old wheels. I can only guess that means we will have a mix at this years race... So what do we do?

Rules on wheels:
7.1. Wheels included with the Pinewood Derby kit distributed by the troop, or identical
wheels, must be used. NOTE: Wheels included with pre-formed kits are usually
not legal – if you have questions, check with the Race Director prior to attaching
them to the car.
7.2. Wheels may be smoothed to remove irregularities left by the molding process.
Diameter and width may not be significantly modified. You should be able to see
the lip on the outer edge of the wheel, and the mold line on the inner edge of the
wheel after it is smoothed.
7.3. Material may not be added to the wheel.
7.4. Wheels may be lubricated with dry graphite only. Liquid oils are not allowed.
7.5. Bearings, washers or any other device intended to reduce friction between the
wheel and axle may not be added to the wheel.

Plus 9 pics showing cupped/ridged/grooved/narrowed/Resized/rounded/peaked and tapered all of which are illegal.


Options I see:
1) Clean up the old wheels and race them
2) go get a set of new wheels clean them and race them
3) get a set and mix them if anyone thinks this would be advantageous.

I'm leaning towards 2.
or identical
wheels, must be used.

Option 2, me thinks :)
Kenny
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by Kenny »

#2 No question.

If anyone will have a kit that has new (2009) style wheels then you are at a disadvantage in speed races.

For cubbies who are motivated by design more than speed, using older wheels may not be as much of an issue.

This has been a dilemma for many packs this year as the new wheels are phased in.

K
doct1010
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by doct1010 »

Kenny wrote:#2 No question.

If anyone will have a kit that has new (2009) style wheels then you are at a disadvantage in speed races.
Concur. 2.6+- vs. 3.8+-, no brainer.
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andylester
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by andylester »

Option 4, go to the scout shop or Michael's and get some new wheels....just make sure they are black. You won't need to do much to them, other than prep the bores. Work the axles and you are good to go. Those will be the same wheels and axles you should have gotten if you had a new kit. And, it is all BSA so there should be no rule/inspection problems.
Thanks,

Andy Lester, Owner

Lester Racing - Laser Cut Gravity Car Innovation
http://www.lesterracing.net" target="_blank


Mountaineer Precision Products
http://www.mpp-models.com" target="_blank
AlabamaDan
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by AlabamaDan »

andylester wrote:Option 4, go to the scout shop or Michael's and get some new wheels....just make sure they are black. You won't need to do much to them, other than prep the bores. Work the axles and you are good to go. Those will be the same wheels and axles you should have gotten if you had a new kit. And, it is all BSA so there should be no rule/inspection problems.
That's what I would do. You're not breaking a rule by getting what you shoudl have got to begin with.
dna1990
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by dna1990 »

Ask the Race Director. While not perfect, we had to get 'all' old kits for this year. If your Troop purposely did the same, then no disadvantage. In fact, you are at a distinct advantage, in that a little work on a old wheel can yield big gains.

I can't agree with going to buy black replacement wheels, unless the Troop Race Director has no idea of the kits were mixed or not. If the rules state 'identical' and they took steps to keep kits the same, then you should honor that.

If they just grabbed what was on shelf - then knowledge is power to know and grab new style wheels.


Yes, chances are nobody can tell the difference...but if you turn out to have the only new wheels and smoke the competition - you gotta live with the decision.
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by AlabamaDan »

dna1990 wrote:Ask the Race Director. While not perfect, we had to get 'all' old kits for this year. If your Troop purposely did the same, then no disadvantage. In fact, you are at a distinct advantage, in that a little work on a old wheel can yield big gains.

I can't agree with going to buy black replacement wheels, unless the Troop Race Director has no idea of the kits were mixed or not. If the rules state 'identical' and they took steps to keep kits the same, then you should honor that.
Agreed. I didn't think of them purposely getting all old kits.
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by Stan Pope »

dna1990 wrote:Ask the Race Director. ...
Kudos! :bigups:

You have expressed exactly the spirit that PWD and DT should try to instill!
Stan
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andylester
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by andylester »

dna1990 wrote:Ask the Race Director. While not perfect, we had to get 'all' old kits for this year. If your Troop purposely did the same, then no disadvantage. In fact, you are at a distinct advantage, in that a little work on a old wheel can yield big gains.

I can't agree with going to buy black replacement wheels, unless the Troop Race Director has no idea of the kits were mixed or not. If the rules state 'identical' and they took steps to keep kits the same, then you should honor that.

If they just grabbed what was on shelf - then knowledge is power to know and grab new style wheels.


Yes, chances are nobody can tell the difference...but if you turn out to have the only new wheels and smoke the competition - you gotta live with the decision.
I'm not trying to avoid asking the director or any type of foul play, I was just trying to show what probably is legal within the rules. When I see the word "identical" in those rules, I also read that along with what they say below about the wheels that come with other kit cars, (i.e. pinecar spoked wheels). Those wheels are not BSA nor do they have any BSA markings on them. I would bet that when they say "identical", they are meaning that they better see BSA, Pinewood Derby, and Made in the USA on them.

Around here, most of the folks at the scout shop and 99% of the packs have no idea about the new wheels. When I asked the scout shop guys behind the counter, they look at me like I just cussed them out and say, "whats the big deal about new wheels...blah, blah, blah.... I don't see why everyone is fretting over a couple of grams...". They have no clue nor do they seem to care about what you get in that box. All they care about is that you buy their products.

Like it says in the rules, ask your director. If they purposely purchased old kits so that everyone used the old wheels, then for sure do that. If you talk to them about it and they have no idea what you are talking about when you mention new wheels, perhaps you should educate them on the differences, and ask how level the playing field is suppose to be for everyone.

Maybe before asking the director, take a peek at some of the other kits that were handed out and see what everyone got. They may all be mixed and you were just the unlucky one to get an old wheel kit. I would bet that they are mixed as it probably would take some effort to find a bunch of kits with the old wheels.

Just my $.02. And good luck on your race!
Thanks,

Andy Lester, Owner

Lester Racing - Laser Cut Gravity Car Innovation
http://www.lesterracing.net" target="_blank


Mountaineer Precision Products
http://www.mpp-models.com" target="_blank
Davhamm
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by Davhamm »

Yes, I emailed the Race Director.. and as I expected... The reply..

I have no idea what your talking about..

Sent her a link that showed the differences.... Shes looking into it. :wall:

So Its safe to say they just got cars without checking... Off to buy new style wheels. I don't think at this point she will be able to do anything other than let folks run what they bring.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by Stan Pope »

Davhamm wrote:Yes, I emailed the Race Director.. and as I expected... The reply..

I have no idea what your talking about..
:pullhair:
Stan
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by scoutfrog »

Many years back, My dad and I had a little trouble trying to find an "identical" part for a car we were woking on. The car belonged to a friend of his and my dad was working on it for him. When we went to replace the water pump with a new one, it did not fit. we returned it and explained it did not fit. The guy at the parts store ran the numbers again, and got us the "new" new part. We get home, same thing different part but still won't fit. Back to the parts store again. This time my dad waited to talk to the guy who has been there for years. This time we took the old part with us. When the guy saw it he said, "so what you working on?". Dad said it was a Hotrod Ford truck with a 428 (I think) engine. The guy said "what year is it?" 1974. "what year is the engine and what is the engine code?" Me and dad just looked at each other. It seems that from the mid to late 60's, Ford made at least 4 different engines that size all with different water pumps. What makes it worse, they gave them all the same part number!!
To get the right one you need the year & engine casting numbers(some years they made most or all of them) plus since they all have the some part #, you need the old one to match up the bolt holes.

O.K. long story short, the pre-2009 BSA derby kits and the 2009 -current kits have the same bar code #'s but could have either or both wheels in the kit.
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Re: Girl Scout race coming.. Our box has old wheels???

Post by andylester »

scoutfrog wrote:Many years back, My dad and I had a little trouble trying to find an "identical" part for a car we were woking on. The car belonged to a friend of his and my dad was working on it for him. When we went to replace the water pump with a new one, it did not fit. we returned it and explained it did not fit. The guy at the parts store ran the numbers again, and got us the "new" new part. We get home, same thing different part but still won't fit. Back to the parts store again. This time my dad waited to talk to the guy who has been there for years. This time we took the old part with us. When the guy saw it he said, "so what you working on?". Dad said it was a Hotrod Ford truck with a 428 (I think) engine. The guy said "what year is it?" 1974. "what year is the engine and what is the engine code?" Me and dad just looked at each other. It seems that from the mid to late 60's, Ford made at least 4 different engines that size all with different water pumps. What makes it worse, they gave them all the same part number!!
To get the right one you need the year & engine casting numbers(some years they made most or all of them) plus since they all have the some part #, you need the old one to match up the bolt holes.

O.K. long story short, the pre-2009 BSA derby kits and the 2009 -current kits have the same bar code #'s but could have either or both wheels in the kit.
Not pinewood related but, if it had a Chevy engine in it, that would have saved you a bunch of trips to the parts store!!! :lipssealed:

Now I will run for cover from all you FORD guys! :pray:
Thanks,

Andy Lester, Owner

Lester Racing - Laser Cut Gravity Car Innovation
http://www.lesterracing.net" target="_blank


Mountaineer Precision Products
http://www.mpp-models.com" target="_blank
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