axle polished grit level - oil vs dry lube

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sporty
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Re: axle polished grit level - oil vs dry lube

Post by sporty »

rpcarpe wrote:Had a nice chat with Glenn Jewkes last week. I wondered why he didn't have any sandpaper over 3,000 grit. And his main competitor, [no advertising for this vendor], didn't have any over 8,000 grit?

Answer: No speed gain going to 12k and 60k polishing papers. I think I remember 8k for oil, 3k for graphite.
Makes my workshop easier to outfit, O'Reilly auto part stores will order in 3,000 grit if you ask nice.

Good Luck!

Hmm, a few things to mention here, so to not confuse others.


different types of sand paper, have different micron ratings.

While i like micro mesh, 12,000 grit is rated 1 micron.

However, different types, like of a rating of 2000 grit or 3000 grit may have or may not have a rating of 1 micron.


Its been awhile since I been to there stores. but i recall at one time, one of the venders selling much finer micron rated supplies, use to offer a string or something, of a rating of 1/2 a micron if i recall correctly.

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Re: axle polished grit level - oil vs dry lube

Post by sporty »

chromegsx wrote:
rpcarpe wrote:Had a nice chat with Glenn Jewkes last week. I wondered why he didn't have any sandpaper over 3,000 grit. And his main competitor, [no advertising for this vendor], didn't have any over 8,000 grit?

Answer: No speed gain going to 12k and 60k polishing papers. I think I remember 8k for oil, 3k for graphite.
Makes my workshop easier to outfit, O'Reilly auto part stores will order in 3,000 grit if you ask nice.

Good Luck!
No speed gain for how many runs? which would different for oil and graphite.

Unfortunately we can't compare the competitor...See this post.
Can you pm me the competitor or be creative.

Since being pointed to pwdr... thanks topspin...and some creative searching, I've been able to find lots of info that I haven't been able to find before on pwdr and here at derbytalk. Still trying to come up with a plan and where to start with it.


Most of what you see on PWDR. has been posted here. allot of the stuff gets buried and is found in older posts or by using the search feature.


I think I posted earlier or previously, in this topic.


that my testing showed, for graphite. cars.

the finer sub micron polishing of the axles. provided less wear on the axles, for longer running race formats. more heats. it does provide some additional runs, that will allow the times to not drop off as soon, as with not going as fine on the prep.

I may have mentioned, that our council race, does not allow relube and we typically ran 20 to 22 times down the track before reaching the finals.

by then all the graphite is pretty much is gone and you are running on your prep work and so forth.


I feel it played a part in my kids winning the council race so many times over the years.


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Re: axle polished grit level - oil vs dry lube

Post by BallBoy »

5kidsracing wrote:... with oil spray the axle generously with Jig-A-Loo...
Jig-A-Loo is a product that I am not familiar with. Since your post, 5Kids, I did a little bit of research on it to learn more. According to the MSDS Jig-A-Loo is 30-60% is Methylene Chloride - a solvent that dissolves plastic. I learned that getting plastic visibly wet with Jig-A-Loo will soften plastic to the point that you can easily alter the shape of the plastic with your fingers. Once it has evaporated then the danger has passed, however the surface of the plastic may have been altered.

Has anyone come across any such problems with Jig-A-Loo?
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Re: axle polished grit level - oil vs dry lube

Post by Topspin.D »

BallBoy, everything I've seen says that the Jig-a-loo is only used on the axels. It's allowed to dry before putting in contact with the wheels.
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Re: axle polished grit level - oil vs dry lube

Post by murphken »

Jia-A-loo (Methylene Chloride) should not be used around young Scouts. Nasty stuff. You don't see vendors selling this stuff for that exact reason.

If you are running graphite, you can run a number of different methods with similar results. You don't need expensive waxes like Legend or re-bottled, expensive waxes to shine a bore for graphite, let alone oil. There are many inexpensive polymer waxes that will do you and your Scout well in a BSA race.

My Scout and I run powder (graphite) with extremely polished axles. Seemed to work well for us over the years. Yes, we have used Legend in the bores because we have some around.

Several years ago, we tried using graphite with 1000 grit sandpaper with horrible results. Maybe going a ways further, like 3000 grit, would have done the trick. Worth a try!

My Scout just finished his axles for this year and he polished to 12K Micro Mesh. For some reason, he did not want to use chrome polish or Brasso. It is up to him. The axles look good!

Don't get carried away with this topic guys. Just let your Scout do his thing and help him along the way. Make sure you keep his cars so when he gets older, he will have something to show his son! :D

Now if you are making an Outlaw Car to have bragging rights on other dads...., that is another topic...... :mrgreen:
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Re: axle polished grit level - oil vs dry lube

Post by 5kidsracing »

BallBoy wrote:
5kidsracing wrote:... with oil spray the axle generously with Jig-A-Loo...
Jig-A-Loo is a product that I am not familiar with. Since your post, 5Kids, I did a little bit of research on it to learn more. According to the MSDS Jig-A-Loo is 30-60% is Methylene Chloride - a solvent that dissolves plastic. I learned that getting plastic visibly wet with Jig-A-Loo will soften plastic to the point that you can easily alter the shape of the plastic with your fingers. Once it has evaporated then the danger has passed, however the surface of the plastic may have been altered.

Has anyone come across any such problems with Jig-A-Loo?
Topspin.D is right Ballboy... The carriers used with JigAloo will melt BSA wheels. It is fine when it is dry. As with any product you want to read warning labels and take the appropriate precautions. I suggested a couple product options for each step and I am sure you all can decide for yourselves what works best for you, your scout, your rules and your budget.
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Re: axle polished grit level - oil vs dry lube

Post by resullivan »

5kidsracing wrote:I polish the same for oil or graphite... I don't think going over 12000 grit has any impact on speed and I usually go to just 8000 grit. A fast car has more to do with alignment then it has to do with axle polishing. Use the q-tip stem/Novus 2 method on your wheel bores. With both graphite and oil add a polish/wax to your wheel bores. Liquid Glass is pretty cheap for the typical scout, but Legend and Red Rocket is faster. With graphite leave the axles sanded/polished (Brasso) nothing else.... with oil spray the axle generously with Jig-A-Loo or Dupont Blue can spray and let dry. With graphite I would use Hob-e-lube, with oil use Krytox or a Krytox blend. When applying oil put 2-3 drops on the axle over the Jig/Dupont and then install the wheel on the axle and then install in car. Never take apart, wipe off or touch the axle where the wheel rides. Contamination is your enemy and alot of racers do everything right and then are slow because of lint or a hair.
Is legend for guitars normally?
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Re: axle polished grit level - oil vs dry lube

Post by 5kidsracing »

resullivan wrote:
5kidsracing wrote:I polish the same for oil or graphite... I don't think going over 12000 grit has any impact on speed and I usually go to just 8000 grit. A fast car has more to do with alignment then it has to do with axle polishing. Use the q-tip stem/Novus 2 method on your wheel bores. With both graphite and oil add a polish/wax to your wheel bores. Liquid Glass is pretty cheap for the typical scout, but Legend and Red Rocket is faster. With graphite leave the axles sanded/polished (Brasso) nothing else.... with oil spray the axle generously with Jig-A-Loo or Dupont Blue can spray and let dry. With graphite I would use Hob-e-lube, with oil use Krytox or a Krytox blend. When applying oil put 2-3 drops on the axle over the Jig/Dupont and then install the wheel on the axle and then install in car. Never take apart, wipe off or touch the axle where the wheel rides. Contamination is your enemy and alot of racers do everything right and then are slow because of lint or a hair.
Is legend for guitars normally?
It is for cars, boats, etc... Liquid Glass Legend is the premium version of the cheaper Liquid Glass.

Here: http://www.shopmpt.com/liquidglass/legend.html

I thought they stopped making it last year, but it still is on MPT's website... so maybe not.
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Re: axle polished grit level - oil vs dry lube

Post by Speedster »

I'd like to share our yesterday District experience. Our 2 cars were from different packs but both in the same District race. We use Max-V's 4094 axles and polish them with Brasso and a Dremel. We do not sand the axles. After polishing, axles are cleaned thoroughly, Lemon Pledge applied, buffed lightly, graphite applied slowly per Doc Jobe. Wheel bores are polished with Novus 2 and a cotton swab shaft, then Liquid Glass, then Hob-E-Lube Graphite. The owners of the Freedom track claim the car travels 35' from start pin to timer. One of our cars set a new track record and took 1st place and our other car took 2nd place. The 1st place car was never beaten. The 2nd place car was beaten once on the 1st track we race on which is a 35' Best track.

I fully realize there is a lot more to building a fast car than what you do to the axles but this has worked for us for many years.
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