Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

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Vitamin K
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Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

Post by Vitamin K »

So Wayne (of Wayne's This and That) has released a three-part video detailing how he builds cars.

Most of it is fairly standard stuff (for us pineheads), but his homebuilt system to true wheels is interesting to me. He's actually shown it before on his site, but this is the first video I've seen of it. He uses a modified mandrel, a drill press, and a home-built blade fixture.

What do you cranky and crusty derby veterans think? Has he got something useful going on here, or would he be better buying a DW shaver tool, or paying somebody for rounded wheels?

Here's the video. The relevant part is 8 minutes and 24 seconds in.


https://youtu.be/
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Re: Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

Post by Speedster »

It's all very humorous except for one part. Don't let your scout watch this unless you are going to instruct him otherwise. Around 4:04, after cutting a small piece, he reaches with his fingers close to the blade to remove a cut out piece. Never, never do this. Either take a piece of wood and knock it out of the way or shut the machine off.
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Re: Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

Post by Vitamin K »

Yeah, he gets a little scary with the scroll saw there...maybe it's a good thing he doesn't own a bandsaw!

However, I'm more interested in hearing opinions of his method for wheel truing/shaving.
Speedster wrote:It's all very humorous except for one part. Don't let your scout watch this unless you are going to instruct him otherwise. Around 4:04, after cutting a small piece, he reaches with his fingers close to the blade to remove a cut out piece. Never, never do this. Either take a piece of wood and knock it out of the way or shut the machine off.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

Post by Stan Pope »

The "wheel turning" method works. It is similar to the method I used "before Lathe."

Concerns include:
1) Correct centering of the mandrel in the chuck. Many chucks do not center better than 0.003 runout, so the chuck runout should be checked before committing too many $ worth of wheels. Various Derby Talk members have measured the runout of wheels "out of the box" and say that many wheels are at least this good. In other words, "truing" the wheels might make them worse. :(

Lacking a "dial indicator" gage, one could prep one wheel (i.e., cut as shown in the video) and then rotate the wheel 180 degrees on the mandrel. Turn on the drill and approach the wheel with a stable lead pencil, stopping when the pencil lead first touches the tread. High spots on the wheel will hit the lead first, leaving a mark partially around the circumference. (This will take a delicate touch and only shows "yes/no" for runout.)

2) The "screw mandrel" can destroy a wheel (and itself in the process) if the cut is too aggressive. Some youngsters can not pass the wheel slowly enough to prevent the wheel from stalling ... which causes the screw to tighten and smash the hub. One session with a youngster broke two of my mandrels! :( A related issue is cutting too deeply. In my setup, I placed a fence on the table and moved the block that held the cutter along the fence, holding the block to the fence by hand. The fence gave a reference to judge stepping the cutter closer to the wheel.

3) It looks like the cutter is somewhat flexible. If so, it reduces the tendency to stall the wheel. I used a really stiff chisel locked in the block, which had no give and increased the likelihood of stalling.
Last edited by Stan Pope on Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: clarifdy "prep"
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sporty
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Re: Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

Post by sporty »

Nice video clip. I thought it was a nice video.
I do wonder what the run out is on the wheels after he is done.
but it does provide another option for people to use and try.
just wonder if the run out is worse off then what he started off with . ??
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Re: Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

Post by Stan Pope »

An additional concern:

4) The author used various abrasive papers on the wheels. If they are pressed against the tread by something soft, for instance, finger pressure, they will tend to remove more material from the edges of the tread than in the center. Probably no one notices, but if that crowning of the tread profile is detected, then the wheels will probably be DQ'ed.

To avoid that possible crowning, I backed the abrasive with a flat wood surface, usually oriented against the table.

An extreme case in which a dad used steel wool as the abrasive was very effective at crowning the tread! Those wheels did not race!
Last edited by Stan Pope on Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: clarify application of abrasive
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Re: Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

Post by ngyoung »

Definitely do not waste money on the DW wheel shaver. To do it right you need a more precise setup then that tool can do. Stan brought up most of the shortfalls of the video setup. Any parent just helping their scout should be focusing their time on alignment, axle, and bore prep. The equipement needed to do it right is expensive if only being used for scout pwd racing. That is another reason I think the DW tool is a waste. If you are trying to squeeze out some extra speed for pro racing you either buy lathed wheels or get the proper equipment to do it yourself.
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Re: Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

Post by whodathunkit »

What about these homemade tools for turning wheels..
that were made by GimpyPaw on this topic.
http://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=2849
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Re: Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

Post by sporty »

I don't believe the guy is selling anything. And while his sharing of what he does and works for him. Or he believes in his process.
why over evaluate or critic it.

There is a learning curve and process in builder skills. I think this one clip was a decent attempt over doing nothing at all.

I don't and will never feel that a child or a adult will ever fully learn or understand . If they don't attempt to learn and try.
Very little is gained with out trying and expermenting. Give people time to evolve and grow.

My kids use to take the mandrel and sandpaper. They might not have been good wheels in the end. But they were excited to try and get involved with the build and they were learning.

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Re: Homemade wheel turner...opinions?

Post by FatSebastian »

Vitamin K wrote:Has he got something useful going on here, or would he be better buying a DW shaver tool, or paying somebody for rounded wheels?
Like Sporty, I would be curious to know if the runout improved after high-speed shaving. A curious parent could replicate the process and then measure the runout to decide if it is something useful.

IMO, this does not look like an activity appropriate for a youngster, but then again, the wheel-shaving tool is not very kid-friendly either, simply because it requires a moderate amount of hand strength to turn and a bit of patience to not end up with a noticeable gouge.

Wayne argues that this legal in any race because one is simply truing the wheel rather than lightening them, but operationally I do not see much difference between this and truing a wheel on an actual lathe, which is sometimes expressly forbidden.

Wayne also suggests polishing the wheel until it is "like glass". Is there a serious advantage to this? I would suppose that the tread benefits from some traction.
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