Any recommendations for car design? Help appreciated...

[davet]

We used a router because that was what we had. The bodies looked nowhere near as nice as VK's pic above. One thing we thought the router helped with was it made the corners round instead of square. Our hollowed out bodies then had rounded inside corners that we thought would keep the body from cracking there. This of course is based on no knowledge of design or structure engineering. This may have been a reason why we didn't get our bodies as slight as we could've. We squared off the corners where the cubes went but they got epoxied in anyways so they stayed strong.

I've often thought of the scout pinewood derby car to be like a demolition derby race car and an adult-league pinewood derby car to be like a formula one car. The scout car has to be very durable because so many people of varying degrees of interest and skill level in these cars will be handling them. They don't get treated kindly at our District event.

[whodathunkit]

derby pain,
Some more scroll saw blade info I'll pass along is this!
The precision ground blades..
Will out perform and out last all the blades. These will cut smoother in straight & radius cuts because of how sharp & aggressive the blades are.
(However these blades are not recommend for scroll saw beginners!)

The skip tooth blades are more so the recommended blade type for the beginner because they stay cool and cut smooth.

The reverse skip tooth blades will cut slower..And do a better job of making clean cuts with less tare out or wood splintering.

Crow tooth blades.. There cutting action prevents melting behind the blade..
making them good for cutting most plastic including lexan, acrylic & plexiglass.
and when the blade dulls out just swap ends and your back to sharp teeth on the blade.

Some pic's of some scroll saw fret work I done for a car build some time back.. The Blade type I used was the Olson 2R rev skip tooth
The car body thickness is 3/8'' pinewood.. ( you'll see different shapes in my pattern to cut out also.)

here's a top view of the car..
For all the cut outs made in the body the wood was rotated while cutting non stop or backing up the blade to make tight corners.
Small 1/16 holes drilled threw the body for the blade to pass threw to make each cut out.

side view of car showing the fret work in the fenders you might think there a hard wood.. however there pinewood as well that i'v stained.


Some things I'll share that I'v learned about buying scroll saws.
Is to look at how much you'll be using it as well.. I say this because when I first started out I bought a home work shop model by Dremel
to learn about scroll sawing.
I quickly was replacing parts.. (The roll pen link bars) to keep it running.. But I was also using it more and more on projects as well.
So if you are looking at doing a lot of work with one.. I fell that a higher end saw is worth it in the long run.
However they will also ware out with lots of use as well!
I still have my first Dremel scroll saw and it still runs good and it was a good learner saw as well that used pined end blades & ref flat blades.
The draw back to the pin blades is a large hole size is needed for the blade to pass threw the work.

But after I bought a higher end Dewalt scroll saw that uses plane end blades.. I was using it a lot more for smaller cut projects.
plus I'v also had to make some repairs along the way with it as well to the blade chucks threw use and learning the saw.
So you'll also want to chose a saw that you can get repair parts for as well.
A good dust blower on the saw and lighting are a real must have as well I say this because..
Black ink pattern lines are some what hard to see with the black blades.. if you can make copies of your patterns.
Use a red ink you'll be able to see the cut lines better.. even with a looking glass on the saw.
pic of black line drawn out to the blade.

Pic of a red line to the blade.

And then for rounding over the back side of the blade for even tighter turns.. use a hone or a file with the saw running to do this.


Clear packing tapes will also help lube the blades and prolong the life of them.
if you have any questions fell free to send an email or send a Pm.. hope this info helps.

whoda.


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[Vitamin K]

Forget being a scroll saw ninja...Whoda is a Scroll Saw Samurai! That's some amazing work there.

[derbypain]

derby pain,
Some more scroll saw blade info I'll pass along is this!
The precision ground blades..
Will out perform and out last all the blades. These will cut smoother in straight & radius cuts because of how sharp & aggressive the blades are.
(However these blades are not recommend for scroll saw beginners!)

The skip tooth blades are more so the recommended blade type for the beginner because they stay cool and cut smooth.

The reverse skip tooth blades will cut slower..And do a better job of making clean cuts with less tare out or wood splintering.

Crow tooth blades.. There cutting action prevents melting behind the blade..
making them good for cutting most plastic including lexan, acrylic & plexiglass.
and when the blade dulls out just swap ends and your back to sharp teeth on the blade.

Some pic's of some scroll saw fret work I done for a car build some time back.. The Blade type I used was the Olson 2R rev skip tooth
The car body thickness is 3/8'' pinewood.. ( you'll see different shapes in my pattern to cut out also.)

here's a top view of the car..
For all the cut outs made in the body the wood was rotated while cutting non stop or backing up the blade to make tight corners.
Small 1/16 holes drilled threw the body for the blade to pass threw to make each cut out.

side view of car showing the fret work in the fenders you might think there a hard wood.. however there pinewood as well that i'v stained.


Some things I'll share that I'v learned about buying scroll saws.
Is to look at how much you'll be using it as well.. I say this because when I first started out I bought a home work shop model by Dremel
to learn about scroll sawing.
I quickly was replacing parts.. (The roll pen link bars) to keep it running.. But I was also using it more and more on projects as well.
So if you are looking at doing a lot of work with one.. I fell that a higher end saw is worth it in the long run.
However they will also ware out with lots of use as well!
I still have my first Dremel scroll saw and it still runs good and it was a good learner saw as well that used pined end blades only..
The draw back to the pin blades is a large hole size is needed for the blade to pass threw the work.

But after I bought a higher end Dewalt scroll saw that uses plane end blades.. I was using it a lot more for smaller cut projects.
plus I'v also had to make some repairs along the way with it as well to the blade chucks threw use and learning the saw.
So you'll also want to chose a saw that you can get repair parts for as well.
A good dust blower on the saw and lighting are a real must have as well I say this because..
Black ink pattern lines are some what hard to see with the black blades.. if you can make copies of your patterns.
Use a red ink you'll be able to see the cut lines better.. even with a looking glass on the saw.
pic of black line drawn out to the blade.

Pic of a red line to the blade.

And then for rounding over the back side of the blade for even tighter turns.. use a hone or a file with the saw running to do this.


Clear packing tapes will also help lube the blades and prolong the life of them.
if you have any questions fell free to send an email or send a Pm.. hope this info helps.

whoda.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Holy cow... That is some serious scrolling there. Thanks for sharing... Anything you share is appreciated. I found a nice Ryobi scroll saw today and since we are beginners we went with 20 tpi skip tooth blades... Haven't unpacked it yet but excited about having the ability to do some of this work with my son on the car.

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[whodathunkit]

Thanks for the kind words VK !

derby pain,
look out before you know it you'll be scrolling like a pro.. but don't be scared to try out some of the different blade types as well.
And from time to time pick up a few scroll saw magazines as well for more tips and pointers.

[whodathunkit]

Is there any more risk of the piece being jerked upwards by the reverse tooth blades? I have a little "foot" thing (somewhere) for the saw, but I tend not to use it because it gets in the way.

Vitamin K ,
after sleeping on some thoughts about what you said above..plus what i said about lifting because of the sap or knotty grain patterns in the wood and so on!
I felt that I needed to revisit your question with some more thought here ..with the hold down foot remove!

First on the hold down foot.. Scroll saws that are sold in America are mandated to have them on the saw by safety regulations
scroll saws that are being sold out of the country do not have them! (Just a little tidbit most do not know about scroll saws!)

When thin stock is being sawed or highly detailed cuts are being made, the saw blade may lift the material on the upstroke.
Most of the time lifting is caused while turning the work into the blade it gets pinched in the cut by shifting and/or catching a tooth.
Mainly to the left or right hand sides of the blade.

It's a problem that takes practice to over come by using your fingers tips and pressure to hold down the wood and then your arms and shoulders to twist the work with.
If your wrists are resting on the table top while turning the work the problem is more problematic as it will take longer to turn the wood.

Okay you know how I like using a foot switch on the scroll saw!

1st:
A foot switch is a good option because I can immediately shut down the saw with out having to first find the power switch or move my hand
to turn off the power If a blade happens to brake.
2nd :
It is especially convenient & a time saving accessory when thin stock sawed or highly detailed cuts are made in the work.
It allows me to use both hands with confidence, to hold the work down against the table.

It's kinda of a learning curve that a scroll saw user has to learn..
Or will learn to find ways to prevent the work from lifting and fluttering on the table as he or she gains experience.
Hold downs sometimes work, but are not always practical because of the size or nature of the work piece. like the kit blocks!
if the work is caught by the blade, the blade will lift the work piece on the upstroke -- it's at that time when your fingers can become pinched
between the work & the table or between the work and the hold down foot if it not adjusted properly.
When constant-tension saws are used to make sharp turns , the work piece is turned faster then when band saws or rigid-arm scroll saw are used.
You have to learn how to make quick turns while applying pressure down wards on the work piece, a skill that takes some practice to develop
the right coordination.
As you practice,the blade may catch in the work piece and chatter up and down. With experience, you'll soon over come this problem.
( I was once new to it and had these same problems and I'm proud to say it as well!)
Paste wax on your table top if it's cast iron will keep the table rust free plus cut down on friction making the wood easier to feed and twist around.
Most that are new to scroll sawing seem to be tensed up and push the work into the blade instead of relaxed and letting the blade do the work.
Scroll sawing is not about how fast you can cut something out! It's about taking your time and using the right blade and letting the saw do the work.

[whodathunkit]

Vitamin K,
Hope this helps and that I've covered your questions about lifting and chattering of a work piece on scroll saws!

[whodathunkit]

I'll see what i can do to start a topic about scroll saw tip's and ticks as well soon
as there seems to be a need with more and more people looking to use them in building there car or looking to brush up on scroll saw skills.

[davet]

I'll see what i can do to start a topic about scroll saw tip's and ticks as well soon
as there seems to be a need with more and more people looking to use them in building there car building or looking to brush up on scroll saw skills.

You guys are costing me money and I thought we were done with the derby. I'm currently looking at scroll saws now, though, I've never used one. This church workshop that's hopefully coming in the fall seems like a good reason for the wife to let me buy one.
Now I have to go back and re-read your posts Whoda.

[whodathunkit]

devet,
The Roybi scroll saw has some good reviews on it for the money!
no cast iron table however its aluminum! and the dust blower is fixed.. unlike the flex ball type hoses on some models.
Not sure of the rest of the features the saw has.

Oh" one thing i forgot to say about the small 16 " model scroll saws in general.. is that some brands will and do vibrate more so others.
so if cutting for long periods of time your hands will go numb.. but if your looking to get in to the hobby pick a good one!
and if you can try some out.. do so to find the one that fits your needs.

[derbypain]

I'll see what i can do to start a topic about scroll saw tip's and ticks as well soon
as there seems to be a need with more and more people looking to use them in building there car building or looking to brush up on scroll saw skills.

You guys are costing me money and I thought we were done with the derby. I'm currently looking at scroll saws now, though, I've never used one. This church workshop that's hopefully coming in the fall seems like a good reason for the wife to let me buy one.
Now I have to go back and re-read your posts Whoda.

I hear you Davet... Already cost me for the Ryobi 16" scroll saw and blades.

Whoda, I think a new education thread would be great for scrolling. I can't wait until my son and I hopefully get out in the garage this weekend to start cutting.

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[whodathunkit]

I just picked up an older delta saw today.. That I'm looking forward to sharing with the info as well!
Hope to get started on it this weekend as well.


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[derbypain]

I just picked up an older delta saw today.. That I'm looking forward to sharing with the info as well!
Hope to get started on it this weekend as well.


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Guys,

I broke out the new Ryobi scroll saw today and my son and I decided to practice by just cut on some old blocks of pine wood (not broken) that we bandsawed down to 1/4" thick.. What do any of you recommend to do when scrolling last sections of the car to prevent breakage/twisting? We finished the large cut middle section then started the weight areas. Noticed when we were close to finishing the back weight area that the section between the front weight pocket and large opening had crack completely through the 1/4" section.. Do you cut out the weight pocket first and do the large middle area last? Specific order to cut out pockets? Do you apply the crazy glue to the planned remaining areas prior to cutting? Just curious if you had any Oh yeah you should not do it like this clues? We installed the 20tpi skip tooth blade... All scrolled nice, smooth and easily until we started working on the back end... It seemed we created just a little too much twist in the body for it to handle it. Thank in advance for any suggestions. That may be why davet adds the plywood prior to cutting everything out and cuts the plywood with the Pine to add strength.

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[whodathunkit]

Can you post a pic of it .. and what way is the wood gain running on the cracked part?

For scroll saw fret work i always start in the center and then work out words to keep from braking the work.
Sounds like you did the same when starting in the center and working out.
Some times when cutting openings with a thin band in between the next opening it can crack the wood..
For the last cut out where did you start cutting it at and end up at when when it cracked..
Did you start the cut where it would be in the thin middle part of the weight pockets and end the cut there as well?
If so it's hard to hold that piece down and that leads to cracking as well.

But if its just cracked and there is no warping glue it back a plate it with a top.

[derbypain]

Can you post a pic of it .. and what way is the wood gain running on the cracked part?

For scroll saw fret work i always start in the center and then work out words to keep from braking the work.
Sounds like you did the same when starting in the center and working out.
Some times when cutting openings with a thin band in between the next opening it can crack the wood..
For the last cut out where did you start cutting it at and end up at when when it cracked..
Did you start the cut where it would be in the thin middle part of the weight pockets and end the cut there as well?
If so it's hard to hold that piece down and that leads to cracking as well.

But if its just cracked and there is no warping glue it back a plate it with a top.

I think you nailed the reason... I think on the last set of cuts my son and I went from outside to in on the weight pocket. It probably just put to much force on the remaining frame. It did crack with the grain which is going vertical (top and bottom of the car). I was always told not to use the wood if the grain was going side to side. Lastly I think there is a small learning curve when using a thin 20 tpi blade about how patient you need to be scrolling the piece of wood. Going too fast is easy to try but the results show why you need take it steady and slow.

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