Hello brand new here.

Secrets, tips, tools, design considerations, materials, the "science" behind it all, and other topics related to building the cars and semi-trucks.
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Vitamin K
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Vitamin K » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:03 pm

Sleestak wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:38 pm
Tried to bend a axel tonight using the board trick. Total failure. Not only did it not bend it hurt my hand . Maybe my axels are crome? I think maybe I've been pranked. Buying the axel bender I tap with hammer tonight.
What kind of axles are you using?



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whodathunkit
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Hello brand new here.

Post by whodathunkit » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:43 pm

From the sounds of things Vk I’d say stainless steel .






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What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

Sleestak
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:08 pm

Vitamin K wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:03 pm
Sleestak wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:38 pm
Tried to bend a axel tonight using the board trick. Total failure. Not only did it not bend it hurt my hand . Maybe my axels are crome? I think maybe I've been pranked. Buying the axel bender I tap with hammer tonight.
What kind of axles are you using?
Silver ones lol. Dont know. They came in either some tires or a bag of 4 I bought. I'm no whimp either. 6'1 225 and I was bending with all my might.
The wood dented. The axel did not. I bought a bending tool tonight off ebay.



Sleestak
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:42 pm

Ok. Just watches a youtube video that scared me. The man in the video explains rail runner cars are faster as long as whoever installed the track knew what they were doing. And he said most local boy scout and girl scout troops do not take the time to aline the track perfectly. He said any part of the track where it isnt perfectly flush the car could hit this and even be knocked of the track. Now I'm thinking maybe I just make a straight runner. Ugh no way to know without seeig the track. Maybe have some straight wheels ready is track looks like it was quickly slapped together.



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Darin McGrew
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Darin McGrew » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:08 pm

Sleestak wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:42 pm
Ok. Just watches a youtube video that scared me. The man in the video explains rail runner cars are faster as long as whoever installed the track knew what they were doing. And he said most local boy scout and girl scout troops do not take the time to aline the track perfectly. He said any part of the track where it isnt perfectly flush the car could hit this and even be knocked of the track. Now I'm thinking maybe I just make a straight runner. Ugh no way to know without seeig the track. Maybe have some straight wheels ready is track looks like it was quickly slapped together.
The difference between a rail rider and a straight-running three-wheeler is the alignment of the dominant front wheel. Since you're using bent axles for alignment, you don't need "some straight wheels" to switch to a straight-running alignment. All you need is a pair of pliers and a few moments to twist the axle of the dominant front wheel and check that it's steering straight.



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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Speedster » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:53 pm

Actually a rail rider with the Dominant Front Wheel set with Positive cant is less likely to get into trouble then a car with the Dominant Front Wheel set to run straight and set so the wheel is perfectly straight up and down. Setting the wheel with Positive cant is one of the reasons it is Positive cant and not Negative cant. With Positive cant the wheel is more likely to bounce a bit when it hits a misalignment and then steers back to the rail instead of hitting the misalignment, tearing a hunk out of the wheel, the rest is awful.



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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:31 pm

Darin McGrew wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:08 pm
Sleestak wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:42 pm
Ok. Just watches a youtube video that scared me. The man in the video explains rail runner cars are faster as long as whoever installed the track knew what they were doing. And he said most local boy scout and girl scout troops do not take the time to aline the track perfectly. He said any part of the track where it isnt perfectly flush the car could hit this and even be knocked of the track. Now I'm thinking maybe I just make a straight runner. Ugh no way to know without seeig the track. Maybe have some straight wheels ready is track looks like it was quickly slapped together.
The difference between a rail rider and a straight-running three-wheeler is the alignment of the dominant front wheel. Since you're using bent axles for alignment, you don't need "some straight wheels" to switch to a straight-running alignment. All you need is a pair of pliers and a few moments to twist the axle of the dominant front wheel and check that it's steering straight.
K I feel stupid asking this. I was assuming I'm going to bend the front passenger axel downward so the tire ride on its outside edge leaning towards the rail and then bend the axel AGAIN somehow??? towards the front so the car turns towards the rail as in rolls down the track.

I'll just ask this...todays question: Feel like I'm going backwards. How in the world to I make the front passager tire ride on its putside edge and steer towards the rail. And explain it as you would to a kindergardener. Does this just take 1 bend of the axel? With the bend part at 10 o clock.rather than 12 o clock. None of you happen to live near Minneapolis do you??? Lol!

In other news I have done nothing to this car. Im waiting for the workshop to start where I may work on it there. My goal there at the workshop is to router out front and middle wood and apply the weight. The rest I'll do at home. Im well over $200 into this car nd approaching $300. But do have all the graphite to return as I'm going to oil.



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Darin McGrew
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Darin McGrew » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:18 pm

Sleestak wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:31 pm
I was assuming I'm going to bend the front passenger axel downward so the tire ride on its outside edge leaning towards the rail and then bend the axel AGAIN somehow???
The point of bent axles is that it is easy to change the alignment by simply rotating the axle head with a pair of pliers. It's just a single bend. Which way the bend points determines everything.

If the bend points straight up (12 o'clock), then the wheel will drift away from the body towards the axle head, but will otherwise roll straight. For rail riding, this is what you want for your rear wheels.

If the bend points straight down (6 o'clock, then the wheel will drift towards the body away from the axle head, but will otherwise roll straight. For rail riding, this is almost what you want for your front wheels. You just need to rotate the axle a little bit, so the car barely steers into the rail (steering an inch or two when rolling a few feet on a flat board).

The idea is that the wheel will hit irregularities in the track, and will bump away from rail, away from the body, and towards the axle head. Then the wheel will drift back towards the body and towards the rail. This requires less energy than if the entire car had to bump away from the irregularity in the track.



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whodathunkit
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by whodathunkit » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:38 pm

Sleestak wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:31 pm
K I feel stupid asking this. I was assuming I'm going to bend the front passenger axel downward so the tire ride on its outside edge leaning towards the rail and then bend the axel AGAIN somehow??? towards the front so the car turns towards the rail as in rolls down the track.
Maybe this image will help Sleestak:
Front view of a rail rider car setting on a track .( DFW is on the right side of the car.)
However note : as it faces forward.. its viewed on the left hand side in the image. DFW that steers the car to the rail.)
And the right hand front wheel in the image is lifted of the track.
The DFW wheel also shows positive camber and some toe in. to keep the trailing back side of that wheel from rubbing on the rail..
This is all done with the bent axle. (One bend only!)
Image
In the next image The rear view of the car.
You"ll see the rears with some neg camber and no toe in or out.. In the image if you look past the rears to the front DFW you'll see the toe in some what.
Image
With your wheel and bent axle installed starting with the bend pointing down positive camber twisting the bent axle with the bend facing up negative camber.
Now if you twist the axle back - and - forth .. toe in and toe out.. depending on if the bend is facing down or up and slightly forward or backwards.
Last edited by whodathunkit on Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:29 pm, edited 8 times in total.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

Speedster
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Speedster » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:29 pm

Sleestak, You're not Stupid. You just don't know. I want to say one thing and then I'll show you what to do to clarify this for you.
This is the EXACT situation I didn't want to happen to you.

OK, cut a straight piece of an old wire hanger about 6" long. Take a pair of pliers and at one end measure back 3/8" and put a very SLIGHT bend in it. Something you think a 1 1/2 degree bend might look like. Put a tiny piece of scotch tape on the 3/8" piece and push a wheel on the end. Hold the rod with your right hand between your thumb and forefinger and with your left hand between your thumb and forefinger slowly turn the rod. Watch what the wheel does. Depending on where the bend is when you start, the wheel will go to the positions, straight ahead, Positive camber, toe-in, Negative camber, toe-out. You will be setting your bend to point straight down (Positive camber). As you turn your nail forward, ever so slightly, you will steer your car to the left 2" in 4'. This is where you start on your level test board. This is with the RIGHT Front wheel as the Dominant Front wheel. Those with track and timer will then take the car to the track and fine tune it.

I would strongly recommend you buy the rail rider axles from Maximum Velocity. I know you'll get good axles and you'll get them in 2 to 3 days. Also, check your rules because they are very lenient. Buy the best, lightest, wheels you can while following the rules. You might want to also buy the little bottle of bore polish and some Extra fluffy pipe cleaners.

You do not have time to buy Novus 2 for polish or some other thing someone is presently using. Stick with the basics and use this race for a learning experience. Your rear bent nails are going to enable you to make certain the wheels are parallel to the car and are not going to be toe-in or toe=out. You do not want the rear wheels trying to steer the car. More on that when the time comes. Keep asking questions.



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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:38 pm

I think I get it now after watch a hour of you tube videos. Speedster I did your example with my finger being the axle and my other hand the tire. And I can kinda see how the tire turns inward like a automobile front tire would to steer as my finger rotated. What would you estimate the mark would be if the mark started in the 6 o clock position to angle the tire in. Then to make it turn is and steer car slightly to the left? 7 o clock? 8 o clock?

Ok now I have another question. I think I'm getting burned out on info. I speak perfect English but for the life of me I cant understand this rule. I've sat here are read it 2 dozen times. I will type it exactly how it is worded in the rules and I want you guys to help me decipher the meaning. Here's the sentence it is about front and rear wheel distance apart. Worded exactly...

Wheelbase: Distance between the center of the front and rear wheel must be no less than 4.


Ok. Does this mean the front axel (being the center) to the start of the back wheel? Or front axel to rear axel and they just forgot to add "center" to the back wheel.

The way I interpret this is my wheels can be at the very front and very back as long as farther apart than 4" (for example front and back cant be 1" apart. Not that you would want them too)

So to dumb this down my front wheels and rear wheels cant be 1 or 2 or 3" apart but can be 4" 5" 8" 10" or 2 miles apart if possible which of course inst. Correct???

I'm on Facebook and twitter if anyone wants to fallow along thru this journey to1st place....or being ejected off the track. Lol



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whodathunkit
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by whodathunkit » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:01 pm

Speedster wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:29 pm
You will be setting your bend to point straight down (Positive camber). As you turn your nail forward, ever so slightly, you will steer your car to the left 2" in 4'. This is where you start on your level test board. This is with the RIGHT Front wheel as the Dominant Front wheel. Those with track and timer will then take the car to the track and fine tune it.
:scratching:

If he twists the axle from the top side of the axle forward with the bend down.. he will drift to the right
Twisting from the bottom side of the axle forward with the bend facing down he will drift to the left.
If the right front wheel is the dominant front wheel!

:idk: Does this sound right?


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

Sleestak
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:03 pm

I believe I'm done asking questions. Learned alot today watching videos. I just wish I had one of the shavers to make true my wheels. I guess I'm doing nothing to the wheels other than polish them with Novus 2. Nothing unless the derby workshop has that tool..


Ok question for speedster...you said...

You do not have time to buy Novus 2 for polish or some other thing someone is presently using.

Why dont I? I already bought it. It arrives in US mail Friday. And I picked up some of those special Japanese pointed Q-tips from hobby lobby..



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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Speedster » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:48 am

Yes Whoda, you are correct. That was a lousy description on my part. I should have said, "As you turn the nail backwards" - which would have moved the bend forward . Thank you.

Yes, they're talking about the wheelbase. Stock size on a BSA block is 4 3/8". You are allowed to extend it.

Good to hear you already have the Novus 2. It's very popular. My point in saying what I did is to get everything you need at the very start so you're not waiting for shipping.

You mentioned 1st place again.
That shaver is not going to help you and might make a junk wheel worse. You would not know if you're improving the wheel unless you have a concentricity gauge. Think what the 3 wheels are being asked to do. You have very generous rules. Check your rules very carefully and then buy wheels from Maximum Velocity (Fast shipping) where all the things have been done to the wheels that your rules allow. You want 1st place. Round wheels with all the friction points removed, that can be removed, will help you. Also buy the rail rider axles. That tool where you smash it with a hammer just might not give you what you're hoping for.
Last edited by Speedster on Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sleestak
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:33 am

And I thought of a question....

Ok so I am allowed to extend my wheels. I was going to drill holes (I bought a drilling hole guide/car holder) as far front and rear so the front of tire is just a hair behind the tip of both the fron and rear. My question is does this benefit me if I have a rail riding car. Both steps are done to prevent wobble.

As far as buying tires from maximum viscosity. I am working for my CEO on this car. The CEO is a 5 year old girl and my I instructions are pink tires. I already have the pink tires purchased from the boy scout store.



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