Hello brand new here.

Secrets, tips, tools, design considerations, materials, the "science" behind it all, and other topics related to building the cars and semi-trucks.
Sleestak
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:20 am

That's for all the help but I need things explained like you are talking to a kindergartener. I dont mean that to be rude.

-What us CA glue?
-Like a dime size area by wheel hole?



Speedster
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Speedster » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:00 am

Cyanoacrylate popularly known as Super glue. Only the inside hub will touch and stay at that point because of the toe-in. I'm interested in this. Should I use something like Loctite Ultragel Control or the "runny" stuff or does it make any difference? Would this be worth doing even if you are limited to graphite?



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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Vitamin K » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:10 pm

Speedster wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:00 am
Cyanoacrylate popularly known as Super glue. Only the inside hub will touch and stay at that point because of the toe-in. I'm interested in this. Should I use something like Loctite Ultragel Control or the "runny" stuff or does it make any difference? Would this be worth doing even if you are limited to graphite?
I think I'd prefer the thin stuff, because it will penetrate and stiffen the wood. Then I can apply multiple layers to build up a hard surface to let the hub run on.

I know some people like to do this for graphite, too, because there is evidence that the hub does push into the wood and leave a bit of a ring. I still kind of feel that the compressed wood plus graphite is a slick enough running surface.



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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Speedster » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:44 pm

Thank you for the very interesting info.



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Hello brand new here.

Post by whodathunkit » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:27 pm

Vk,
Have you ever tried using the Sally Hanson
Teflon tuff nail polish with brush applicator.
Instead of the super glue?

Here this works well for a slick surface around the axle slots or drilled holes while running oil lube’s.



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What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

Sleestak
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:53 am

Update...over the weekend I started building the car. I drilled and cut out the under belly of the car to reduce weight then drilled holes for the tungston weights and puddied over them. Sanded and painted 3 coats of paint sanding after each coat. The car before I painted weighed 4.83 grams. So after the coats of paint and sticker weight I have a empty hole to stick some tungston puddy to get to 5.000000. I also drilled axel holes and move the front up and the back back. The tires start just after the front and rear bumper now. To paint I put tooth picks in the holes.

What I could have done better is the placements of the 5 weights. I put 2 (1 each per side) behind and above the back axel into the side of the car. Then drilled 3 holes in a row 1/2 in front of back axel. 1 middle and 1 each the the side of the middle one. Light sideways red yellow and green light what I could have done better was use a drilling guide but I didnt have one so I just eyeballed 3 dots and drilled. The depth are not perfect either. I weigh was just below the surface while another was 1-8th below. And one hole the drill move 1/8". I'm trilled with where the weight is but no sure how criticle the placement is. It is what it is tho. And the 2 weights into the side of the car one is 1/8" deeper as well as I didnt have a drill press. I was just going to the mark I made on my drill.

I also sanded my axles with paper up to 2000 them some diamond compound. They shine. And I polished the bores with novus 2 and those sharp qtip things.

My question is how should I go about oiling the axels and wheel hubs. Hiow much? Spread oil with q tip? And I was planning on doing this the day of registration. My car will be held over night before the derby.



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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by gpraceman » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:32 am

Sleestak wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:09 pm
My daughter is now in girlscouts and has a derby coming up and we are going to win 1st place at any $ cost!
This is your daughter's car, correct? If so, I hope she is getting a chance to work on it (a lot of "my" and "I" in your posts, not "her" and "we"). Even at 5 years old, there is a lot the kids can do to help with "their" car. After all, this was intended to be a joint project. You should find some way to include her in as much of the build process as you can. Don't let your race experience as a kid cause you to get over zealous. Winning is not everything. Spending the time with your daughter will mean far more to her when she is grown than some trophy that will eventually get broken and thrown away.


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

Sleestak
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:20 am

Well it surly isnt my car you goof. 47 year old male girl scout? Do better. All my daughter is doing is picking the color and wheel color and stickers. She did apply glue to the weights but that us about all she can do. She is very tiny 38 pound 5 year old and cant hold a drill let alone squeeze the trigger.
And my daughter is just that...my daughter. She lives in our home. We spend pleanty of time together. Heck just yesterday we made a giant snow ball and were shoveling menting water at end if driveway. Fun! Now do you have advice on my question and applying oil? If not carry on sir.
Edit. She is also picking the number. 5. Her age today and her soccer number.
gpraceman wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:32 am
Sleestak wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:09 pm
My daughter is now in girlscouts and has a derby coming up and we are going to win 1st place at any $ cost!
This is your daughter's car, correct? If so, I hope she is getting a chance to work on it (a lot of "my" and "I" in your posts, not "her" and "we"). Even at 5 years old, there is a lot the kids can do to help with "their" car. After all, this was intended to be a joint project. You should find some way to include her in as much of the build process as you can. Don't let your race experience as a kid cause you to get over zealous. Winning is not everything. Spending the time with your daughter will mean far more to her when she is grown than some trophy that will eventually get broken and thrown away.



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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by gpraceman » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:41 am

Sleestak wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:20 am
Well it surly isnt my car you goof. 47 year old male girl scout? Do better.
Some do a race with an adult division. Our son's Cub Scout pack did and our Awana club does. We do that deliberately in the hopes that the kids will be able to participate more in the construction of their car. So no, I am not being a goof.
Sleestak wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:20 am
All my daughter is doing is picking the color and wheel color and stickers. She did apply glue to the weights but that us about all she can do. She is very tiny 38 pound 5 year old and cant hold a drill let alone squeeze the trigger.
The point I am trying to make is that she can help in the process. Maybe not running the power tools at her age/ability, but I do challenge you to include her in as many steps of the construction as you can. Maybe it is doing a little sanding. Maybe it is handing you a wheel or axle. Maybe it is applying a drop of oil on an axle. As she gets older, she will be able to help more and more in the process, with you guiding her along the way.
Sleestak wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:20 am
And my daughter is just that...my daughter. She lives in our home. We spend pleanty of time together. Heck just yesterday we made a giant snow ball and were shoveling menting water at end if driveway. Fun! Now do you have advice on my question and applying oil? If not carry on sir.
I wasn't trying to be rude. I'm glad that you are spending time with her on other things. I was just trying to challenge you to include your daughter in the process for building her car, as much as you can.


Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

Sleestak
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:38 am

Hey fellas. So My car is ready. All I have left in bend my axels. I'm planning the back 2 2.5 degree and the 1 touching front wheel 1.5 degree. My question is....This Thursday night we turn in the cars. The race is Friday night 7pm. When should I oil the wheels and axels. Wednesday so I have time to tinker and adjust my steering? Or would the last available hour be best and that be Thursday afternoon.

Yes I'm using oil. The question is when should I apply the oil. Today? Wednesday or Thursday the day I turn the car in.

I'm using Kryton 100 oil.

Also tips on how to apply to axels and how much? I was going to cut a hobby lobby q tip from Japan I forget the name and place a speck on each axel and slread then oil the qtip stem and spin tire over oiled stem 2 or 3 times. Sound like a solid plan? I know less oil is more.



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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by ironband » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:57 pm

I'd lube before tuning. As I understand it Krytox is good for weeks after application. I'm not really familiar with the oil application process, but I believe you just put a drop on the axle, turn it to coat the area that the wheel will ride on, put it in the wheel, and soak up any excess with some paper or microfiber.

Good luck!



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Vitamin K
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Vitamin K » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:08 am

Sleestak wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:38 am
Hey fellas. So My car is ready. All I have left in bend my axels. I'm planning the back 2 2.5 degree and the 1 touching front wheel 1.5 degree. My question is....This Thursday night we turn in the cars. The race is Friday night 7pm. When should I oil the wheels and axels. Wednesday so I have time to tinker and adjust my steering? Or would the last available hour be best and that be Thursday afternoon.

Yes I'm using oil. The question is when should I apply the oil. Today? Wednesday or Thursday the day I turn the car in.

I'm using Kryton 100 oil.

Also tips on how to apply to axels and how much? I was going to cut a hobby lobby q tip from Japan I forget the name and place a speck on each axel and slread then oil the qtip stem and spin tire over oiled stem 2 or 3 times. Sound like a solid plan? I know less oil is more.
Krytox just by itself is about as fast as a graphite lube job. Maybe a tad bit slower than a good graphite lube (from what I've heard).

In order to take oil to "the next level" you have to apply something to the axles and the wheel bores that will provide a surface that repels the oil. The theory is that this creates a hydrodynamic "liquid bearing" around the axle. Whether or not that actually occurs, I can't say. What I can say is that it goes a LOT faster than graphite.

In order to do this, you need to choose products that work well to coat the given surface, and are also safe for the surface. For the wheel bores, a lot of folks like to use synthetic automotive "wax". Products like Rejex, or Liquid Glass or Meguiar's NXT wax can work for this. There are also a number of Derby-specific products sold by vendors that you can use. The application is usually the same: Apply to the inside of the polished bore. Let it haze. Wipe it out. Let it cure. Buff it to a final polish.

For the axles, people typically opt for a coating spray. The most popular with the league racers is (at least publicly) Jig-A-Loo, which is hard to get since you have to import it from Canada. You can also use 3M Dry-Type Silicone Spray, or
Max Pro Heavy Duty Silicone Spray. 3M "Chain Saver" can work too, but this would be my last resort.

One nice thing about the Max-Pro is that you can actually use it on both the bores and the axles. You can spray it directly on the axles. For the wheels, I spray some into a cup, let it sit for about 15 minutes and then use an applicator to apply it to the inside of the bore and the hub. It's a nice "one-stop shop" and it's a lot faster than using an automotive wax. We've gotten good results with it at the Scout level, so it would be my recommended way to go.



Sleestak
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:06 pm

I didnt to anything to my axels as far as another lube. I had bought a can of liquid silicone with teflon and I tested it on a big nail. well 20 minute later the nail was still wet. So I didnt want to mix by derby oil with wet silicone so I just used the oil plain on the axles.

I did test the steering and you can actually make the car steer. It worked! I have our car move 2" left over 4 feet.

Then phone time with the completed car. Of course the 5 year old drops the car on the hard wood floor from 3 feet up. I retested the car drift and it was fine.

I dont feel so great about our car. I was expecting f better with the $20 oil. I see alot of guys on YouTube spin their tires and say a rule of thumbs is 20 seconds. Mine spin maybe 8? I did polish the axels with paper up to 2000 then a diamond dust compound. Polished inside my wheel with norvus and 2



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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Darin McGrew » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:19 pm

My experience with Krytox is that the spin test doesn't last as long as with graphite, but on the track, under load, the cars are at least as fast as with graphite. Plus, it's a lot less messy to have Krytox at our workshops than graphite (which always left a big black mess). But I'm more experienced in organizing workshops and derbies, and in building unusual designs, than I am in building super-fast cars.



Sleestak
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Re: Hello brand new here.

Post by Sleestak » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:06 am

Darin McGrew wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:19 pm
My experience with Krytox is that the spin test doesn't last as long as with graphite, but on the track, under load, the cars are at least as fast as with graphite. Plus, it's a lot less messy to have Krytox at our workshops than graphite (which always left a big black mess). But I'm more experienced in organizing workshops and derbies, and in building unusual designs, than I am in building super-fast cars.
Ok this makes me feel better about my low spin tire times.



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