Track selection

[Stan Pope]

The first question to answer when selecting a track for your organization is, "What kind of track will our winners race on next?" Different tracks put a premium on different aspects of design. If my race winners go race at a district or area race and if my track emphasized different design aspects, them I may not be selecting the best representatives to that district or area race.

For instance, since my district's races are conducted on 4'X32' Piantedosi tracks almost exclusively, that would be my choice for my pack's track.

I _might_ include a competition on other types of tracks, such as an old straight ramp or a new 60' aluminum outfit and provide appropriate rewards for the racers who do well there. However, the races that select my representatives _will_ run on Piantedosi tracks!

[gpraceman]

Our pack got a Piantedosi track just before our last race and I will say that it is a very nice and well built track. However, the one thing I do not like about it is the start gate design. Their design has a couple of rubberbands that keep the gate in the up position. The start gate operator must twist the end of the board with the start gate pegs to start the race.

If the start gate operator is not consistent the race results may be affected. A slow drop of the gate allows cars to start rolling and those that touch higher up on the start peg will actually move ahead of the cars hitting their pegs lower. We did have one extremely slow start where the start gate was dropped so slowly that one of the car's underbody caught on the top of the start peg and jumped its lane.

To minimize this effect, a start gate should snap open quickly and with little effort on the part of the start gate operator. A latch mechanism to keep the gate up with a spring or rubber band assisted opening, I believe, would be a better design for this gate. Either that, or like on our Awana track I built, the gate can be a plate of plywood that has some weight to it, so there is no need for a spring or rubber band assist.

This issue can also be addressed with better training and communication with the start gate operator, but I think it better to have a design that minimizes the need for such things. As we said when I was in the Navy, it needs to be sailor proofed.

[Stan Pope]

I generally agree with your comments.

My post was not an endorsement of Piantedosi tracks. It was a statement regarding maximizing your unit's chances at the district races.

Now, here is an endorsement: Piantedosi tracks are the best tracks I've seen. At the Sycamore Invitational last year, two top cars went at it in 4 heats on alternating lanes on a Piantedosi track. Winning margins ranged from 1/8" to just over 1/4" for the 4 heats. The orange car won over the green car in each heat. Cars were staged by their Cub Scout owners by eye.

It is likely that the care with which the track was finished was a factor in that a poor finish might have adversely affected lane equlity. (Nice job, Dan!)

[gpraceman]

My post was not an endorsement of Piantedosi tracks. It was a statement regarding maximizing your unit's chances at the district races.

Yes, I agree. It would be hard for most of our packs to match the track setup of our coucil/district race, since it is a custom track using the aluminum plating from Beta Crafts. In that case, it would be better to at least try to match the type of track (s-shape, sloped, concave) since some design characteristics are more of an advantage on some types of tracks as opposed to others.

[Stan Pope]

Yes, I agree. It would be hard for most of our packs to match the track setup of our coucil/district race, since it is a custom track using the aluminum plating from Beta Crafts. In that case, it would be better to at least try to match the type of track (s-shape, sloped, concave) since some design characteristics are more of an advantage on some types of tracks as opposed to others.

First, it is rather unfair to impose an unusual or not generally available track on the district or council races. That gives a profound advantage to the reps from the pack that supplies the track. The advantage is very strong if boys must "qualify" by doing well at local races and overwhelming if the cars can not be altered between local and council races.

Second, in an unpublished manuscript, Cory Young described unexpected differences between the longer aluminum track and the Piantedosi track. Both have the same fundamental shape, but the longer alum. track appears to "disfavor rear weighted cars."

[MaxV]

I have watched races run on a Piantedosi track. It certainly is a nice track from the wood surface perspective, but the starting gate needs to be redesigned. I witnessed a car 'launched into space' when the gate handle was twisted and then released quickly.

I have a 2-lane BestTrack aluminum track which I use for test purposes. It has a spring-loaded starting gate, such as the one described by GPRaceman. That in itself sold me on the track. But beyond that, the track is very consistent and the braking section is terrific.

[gpraceman]

Second, in an unpublished manuscript, Cory Young described unexpected differences between the longer aluminum track and the Piantedosi track. Both have the same fundamental shape, but the longer alum. track appears to "disfavor rear weighted cars."

We got to get Cory to join this forum. I would love to hear about his testing. I sent him an invite, but he's probably busy or vacationing.

Not all packs can afford the track used at their district race or afford to rent it, if it is available on a rental basis, so this data would be good to hear. Maybe the issue is with a longer flat section.

[TCON]

Concerning start-gate........I use the aluminum peg/slot
gate. 3/8" pegs set in 4" cntr holes @90 degrees to a 1/2"
diameter handle. Handles on both sides of the track allow
the counterweight to hold the stert pegs in the "up" mode.
1/2" slots, routed in the track make for a quick, non-contact
and simultaneous release. Track must be sufficiently stable
to deter "slamming" of the gate and altering the car positions,
as they take off. One of my older tracks has wood pegs and
works OK. I think the aluminum is crisper. ("crisper"....boy
there's an engineering term for you!)
Those smiley faces, to the left, make me nervous, winking
and smiling at me.

Christ for Kids............TCON

[Cory]

Second, in an unpublished manuscript, Cory Young described unexpected differences between the longer aluminum track and the Piantedosi track. Both have the same fundamental shape, but the longer alum. track appears to "disfavor rear weighted cars."

Stan is correct. We deviated from the standard Beta Crafts track design and created what is basically a "stretched-out" version of the How-To book track. Same starting gate height, about 50 ft. long.

Center guide/wheel contact is much more severe on our aluminum track. Badly staged cars end up with dismal performances. Extremely rear-weighted cars could win the race to the bottom, but would almost always "come loose" (i.e. yaw) on the flat, and it was a bad tradeoff for them. A well-constructed car with a 4-1/2" COG could make up 2 or 3 feet on our 24' runout against a similarly constructed car with a 5-1/2" COG.

This is anecdotal, of course, but this is not a concensus opionion of the people that watched. It is the unanimous opinion of the people that watched. I also shared emails with a parent who competed on an aluminum track and he shares this opinion, less aggressive COG's are better on this surface.

C...

[Stan Pope]

Hey! Welcome aboard, Cory! Nice to hear you haven't totally gone over to the Boy Scouting side! Thanks for adding clarity to my brief attribution.

[Da Graphite Kid]

One consideration for choosing a track material type that has not been addressed here is storage and what it can do to a track. The reason I mention this is that our Pack is using a wooden track that is stored in a non-controlled environment. By this I mean that while it is inside a building and is protected from the sun (UV) and rain, it is not in a heated/air conditioned building. Since we are in LA (Lower Alabama) and located next to a lake, our humidity stays very high throughout most of the year. This has caused the track to deteriorate at a faster rate than it should. It warps, swells, and in general now creates a rough racing surface on its best day. Our District races have been held on a very smooth Piantedosi wooden track that is stored indoors in a heated/air conditioned building. Unfortunately we do not get a chance to test our cars on this track and therefore any adjustments we make are just a ‘best guess’ as to whether it will help the car run faster-better-straighter or not (in 3 years of District racing, we’ve guessed well enough to take home 5 trophies). While I agree that you should use a track with the same shape and material at a Pack level as you would at District/Council level, if you cannot store a wooden track in a controlled environment, an aluminum track may be best for your Pack in the long run.

Speaking of long runs; Cory, do you know if the differences seen in car performance on the Piantedosi versus Beta Crafts tracks were due to the longer flat section or not. If this were the case, I would consider holding Pack races on a shorter track but still award ribbons/medals/trophies to the boys who did well on a longer track.


Da Graphite Kid

[gpraceman]

One consideration for choosing a track material type that has not been addressed here is storage and what it can do to a track. The reason I mention this is that our Pack is using a wooden track that is stored in a non-controlled environment. By this I mean that while it is inside a building and is protected from the sun (UV) and rain, it is not in a heated/air conditioned building. Since we are in LA (Lower Alabama) and located next to a lake, our humidity stays very high throughout most of the year. This has caused the track to deteriorate at a faster rate than it should. It warps, swells, and in general now creates a rough racing surface on its best day.

Da Graphite Kid

A possible option for track storage in a non-climate controlled building might be to wrap it in plastic along with a couple of large dessicant bags. The plastic would need to be sealed well, but it may be worth the time and effort to extend the life of the track instead of having to purchase a more expensive aluminum track.

[TCON]

All unfinished wooden tracks must be, at least sealed.
The sealing process is easy and doesn't need an expert
to do it. Even the urethane coating, steel wooling between
coats, is reletively simple.
All my straightedges, in my shops, constantly "grow"
overnight, in humid conditions. Using a "mortise and tenon"
assembly joint, instead of a single plate/bolted design, allows
me to hang track sections up. Hanging a board, vertically,
relieves any transverse, unequal tension. Most warpage
comes from unequal pressure, from inside or out, on each
surface. Equalizing circulation and relieving tension allows
each side to act equally. I have two tracks over 10 years old
that still line up and run OK with minimal tuning.

Christ for Kids........TCON

[gpraceman]

All unfinished wooden tracks must be, at least sealed.
The sealing process is easy and doesn't need an expert
to do it. Even the urethane coating, steel wooling between
coats, is reletively simple.
All my straightedges, in my shops, constantly "grow"
overnight, in humid conditions. Using a "mortise and tenon"
assembly joint, instead of a single plate/bolted design, allows
me to hang track sections up. Hanging a board, vertically,
relieves any transverse, unequal tension. Most warpage
comes from unequal pressure, from inside or out, on each
surface. Equalizing circulation and relieving tension allows
each side to act equally. I have two tracks over 10 years old
that still line up and run OK with minimal tuning.

Christ for Kids........TCON

I guess we're all getting off topic about track selection. I'd be currious to see a photo of your joint sections, if you have any. If so, please post in another thread so we don't incur the wrath of the moderator

Maybe also starting a thread about track finishing would be helpful.

[Mike Parrish]

Second, in an unpublished manuscript, Cory Young described unexpected differences between the longer aluminum track and the Piantedosi track. Both have the same fundamental shape, but the longer alum. track appears to "disfavor rear weighted cars."

I too have seen rear weighted cars perform "unexpectedly" on a 100 ft. long, 6 lane aluminum track, at our Awana State Grand Prix. My daughter's car never lost a race at our local church, but when we got to the state, she place 4th. in her division (we were still very happy with that), but 15th fastest overall out of approx. 80 cars.

After looking at the fastest cars that day, we noticed the weight was almost, if not right in the middle of the car. We will be testing this weight placement on our track next.