Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District PW D

General track discussions.
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Stan Pope
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Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District PW D

Post by Stan Pope »

One of the things I'd like to do this summer is to make a few different styles of one lane tracks, with timers, to use as "interest areas" for next year's district PWD. Allow each scout a run on each track after they finish their racing. (We use a quintuple elim, so scouts are "straggling off" the various rank tracks.) Keep records of times by track and rank. Maybe offer prize for best time of the day on each track.

Thoughts are:
1. Standard 4X32 modern
2. S 4X32 ... very slight slope for a few inches before dropping to about 30 degrees.
3. Straight (constant slope) 4X32
4. Standard 4X32 (modern) with a 6" "hump" about 6 feet from the finish line.
5. Long 4X48 modern.

I'd like to add a "fast" track, e.g. 6X32 or 8X32 modern, but I don't want to go higher than about 4 feet. I want the scouts to be able to stage their cars safely.

Any other suggestions?

When this subject was broached in a private email, a wag suggested a "loop". We jointly concluded that this test might be too extreme.

Also, any thoughts on how these might be timed without too much complexity or error?
Stan
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by ExtremePWD »

Stan - Try this on for size:

* One 5x48 track
* Conventional starting gate at 4' height on straight part of extended length ramp
* Second starting gate at 5' that starts on a low slope then transitions before the first starting gate
* Timing lights at the end of the extended length ramp, the 32' mark and the 48' mark.
* 6" rise between 32' and 48' optional
* Switch to select finish line or time all finish lines each race
* Jump into a pit of foam scraps after the finish line for fun
* Computer logging and display for tracking and throughput

Conduct each trial with either starting location and the selection of one finish location or take time for every finish location on every run. Have an electronic display that displays a matrix of fastest times with the last five trials and names printed below the times for reference. I would take the data on all finishes each run and then give each boy a single run at each starting location. With 300 scouts making two runs each with a targeted cycle time of 20 seconds would require approximately 3.5 hours. Staging for the lower gate would be from the side but is probably acceptable on a single lane track since there is no reaching to center or far lanes. Multiple tracks would ease the throughput requirements but would multiply the timers, starters and general logistical requirements. I would also suggest a person be assigned to explain the basic physics in a mini PWD 101 session held every 15 minutes or so.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by Stan Pope »

Good idea to combine the short and long tracks into a single run. Reduces total hardware requirements. Might also provide some useful correlations.

That would make it feasible to run a short/long aluminum track, too. :)

I'll have to look at software possibilities to see how many tracks and finish lines one computer could manage.

I'm thinking of solenoid released starting lines to control traffic from the "end zone" area, where I'd expect the computer to be stationed. Boy can set the starting line, but released by "push button" after boy has reached the finish line. Or, put the button at the finish line so that the boy can release his own car!

Like the "jump" provided we can assure a safe landing!

Wonder if we should include a check-in/weigh station to collect racer number and stats on weight distribution. I have in my possession two 0.1 oz scales with computer interface that might just be useful.

Hmmm.

I think the area needs to be manageable by one person, but I would plan to have two people on station most of the time. One to push the buttons and one to help whereever and to relieve the first.

More ideas, anyone?
Stan
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by gpraceman »

Stan Pope wrote:I'll have to look at software possibilities to see how many tracks and finish lines one computer could manage.
Without custom programming, I doubt you will find software that will manage multiple tracks and input from multiple timing systems. You run into many technical issues in trying to do so.
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by ExtremePWD »

Stan Pope wrote: I'll have to look at software possibilities to see how many tracks and finish lines one computer could manage.

Wonder if we should include a check-in/weigh station to collect racer number and stats on weight distribution. I have in my possession two 0.1 oz scales with computer interface that might just be useful.
A three lane timer could be modified to record the times at three positions on a single lane. A commonly available PWD software package could be used to read the times if the timer did not have a readout or a relatively simple program could be created to read the times from the timer. New records could be transcribed manually to a large white board. Not much flash but functional. (I just happen to have a 4' x 8' whiteboard I built for a different event if you would like to use it)

If you will be tracking weight distributions then you need to consider the situation where a car is run forward for the standard config and backwards for the S-track.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by Stan Pope »

gpraceman wrote:Without custom programming, I doubt you will find software that will manage multiple tracks and input from multiple timing systems. You run into many technical issues in trying to do so.
Fortunately, I spent the last 44 years learning how to do custom programming! :)

I'm aware of some of the technical issues, especially with Windows! Any references you can supply will be appreciated.

If nothing else, I have a parts in a box for a sub-ms stand-alone stopwatch to check things with! :)
Stan
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by MathGuy »

Diagnostic Tracks.
Alignment Track
Slow Speed Friction

Alignment Test Track
Given the importance of alignment, a fun track would be be one that put's the car's alignment to the test, and it actually would be very instructive to kids about the importance of alignment.

I made an adhoc one for our alignment tests. I had an eight foot board with center guide, inclined one foot, that drops down to a wide piece of thin press board without center guides. The point where the car runs off the center end board would indicated a allignment relative to a perfect 90 degrees. Poorly alligned cars will roll off the flat board before the end of the flat. I would imagine flat board would have a colorful display of the angles.

Slow Speed Friction
I slightly incline press board one inch(maybe) from the floor, and see how far a a car will roll. Again, no guides. Thus a car with low friction would roll 60 inches and a car with higher friction would only make it 28 inches.

Stan, you might notice the relative cost of these tracks make them very attractive.
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by Darin McGrew »

MathGuy wrote:Slow Speed Friction
I slightly incline press board one inch(maybe) from the floor, and see how far a a car will roll. Again, no guides. Thus a car with low friction would roll 60 inches and a car with higher friction would only make it 28 inches.
This reminds me of a distance-plus-accuracy event for mouse-trap cars. Basically, a car is released along a straight line, and when the car stops, its distance from the straight line is subtracted from its distance from the start line. The furthest net distance wins. (Both distances are measured perpendicular to the line in question.)
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by MathGuy »

This slow speed track, might also be the only way that I can think of to "test" for machined axles and wheels. Our council has a rule for no machining or polishing axles, and wheels can only be lightly sanded.

Most of with unaltered wheels cars roll for 25-35 inches. A car with wheels and axles I have seen roll 55 inches.

I would only use this test as an indicator, but it might be the only way we can tell if the axles had been modified.
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by brownboy »

MathGuy wrote:This slow speed track, might also be the only way that I can think of to "test" for machined axles and wheels. Our council has a rule for no machining or polishing axles, and wheels can only be lightly sanded.

Most of with unaltered wheels cars roll for 25-35 inches. A car with wheels and axles I have seen roll 55 inches.

I would only use this test as an indicator, but it might be the only way we can tell if the axles had been modified.
wow, you can't even take the casting marks off the axle? what about spining the axle while the wheel is stationary so the casting marks remove that part of the wheel that they might otherwise come in contact with?
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by PWTom »

Stan, here's a link to what our Council did this year (actually today). http://www.derbycentral.com/sam_houston ... ouncil.htm The precision course was very interesting, but the collision derby seemed to be drawing the most interest from the boys. The cars are designed especially for the collision derby so the carefully built "classic derby cars" don't get smashed. It was quite an interesting scene!!
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by Stan Pope »

Cool... thanks for posting the link to SHAC rules. (BTW, I'm a refugee from suburban Houston ... 1964-68 and worked at Texas Medical Center during that time.)
Stan
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by MathGuy »

I really like the idea of the Death Derby. :lol:

And truely think that most of the boys would have allot of fun with it too. Good use for last year cars.
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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by Da Graphite Kid »

PWTom,

The Death Derby is so totally cool!
I now know what we are going to do with our old wooden track!


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Re: Alternative tracks to "spice up" the District

Post by terryep »

Here is something the 1st Springhill scouts did:

1st Springhill Scouts:
Troop Scouter Dan Nicholson reports that the 1st Springhill Scouts held
their 2nd Annual Smash & Bash Derby last week. The Scouts (with help from their parents) had to build a vehicle that would run on the kub kar track. The only rules for designing the cars were that they had to fit in the
starting gate and that any attachments had to be safe for indoor use.

The Derby was comprised of four events. In the first event, the cars had
to knock six objects off the track and then break through a toilet paper
wall. The second required the vehicles to break a balloon suspended 15 cm. above the track while the third course involved the cars flying off a jump, clearing a shark infested water hazard and landing in a sandpit. Points were awarded for clearing the water hazard and for distance. In the final event, the cars had to successfully pass two pendulums swinging over the track and set off a modified rat trap which smashed down on the cars. Points were awarded for clearing the pendulums and for the car that
disintegrated best in the rat trap.

Top honours went to Jamie McMurtrie, second place to Tristin Farnham and third to Zane Finnegan with the merit award to Travis Sheasgreen for being the only one brave enough to land in the shark pond. A great time was had by all!

Terry
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