Track Length Preference

[PinewoodPerformance]

35 or 42 feet? IS there a difference or is it just 7 feet?

[gpraceman]

35 or 42 feet? IS there a difference or is it just 7 feet?

It all depends on how fast your racing surface is and how well your stopping section works. With aluminum and other very smooth track surfaces, it is common to have to add length in the flat to make sure the cars will stop reliably (and gently) in the stop zone. If you go short to save money, you may have to implement a better stopping system, like ballistic stoppers mentioned elsewhere in this forum.

[Darin McGrew]

With aluminum and other very smooth track surfaces, it is common to have to add length in the flat to make sure the cars will stop reliably (and gently) in the stop zone.

I've also heard comments that aluminum (and similar) tracks need extra length to give time for the cars to be differentiated. With such smooth track surfaces, the cars tend to be bunched up more after only 28ft or so.

Another consideration is the size of the room where you're holding your derby. My church would have difficulty using a longer track. There isn't really enough room in our fellowship hall for a longer track, and the seating, tables, etc., needed for the people who watch and run the derby.

[gpraceman]

I've also heard comments that aluminum (and similar) tracks need extra length to give time for the cars to be differentiated. With such smooth track surfaces, the cars tend to be bunched up more after only 28ft or so.

That is true. It can lead to closer races (not necessarily a bad thing), but will also lead to more ties that you have to deal with.

[Da Graphite Kid]

These guys are right about the aluminum tracks:

Although I have seen ties before on wooden tracks, we seemed to have more on our aluminum track this year for the number of boys racing. Maybe it was just that the competition was so close or maybe it was the track that allowed them to be.

We needed to add another 8 foot section past the finish line on our 32 foot aluminum track to help slow the pwd cars down so they would not launch into the air when they hit the end of the stop section (new Piantedosi stop section). We would have added another 8 foot section but could not as we did not have the room. Even though we added this additional track section, combined with elevating the end of the track 7 inches, we still had a few cars that flew off the track. I'll be looking at other means of stopping the cars next year or we will have to find another place to race so we can add a second 8 foot section after the finish line.


Da Graphite Kid

[gpraceman]

We needed to add another 8 foot section past the finish line on our 32 foot aluminum track to help slow the pwd cars down so they would not launch into the air when they hit the end of the stop section (new Piantedosi stop section).

It would seem better to add the extra section before the finish line. This will give the same slowdown distance and make it easier to differentiate the finish order. Having a timing system is nice, but if you run into problems and have to go with manual judging, it will be much easier on the judges if all the races were not so close (and less arguments from parents).

[Da Graphite Kid]

Randy,

I couldn't agree more about putting the extra 8 foot track section in front of the finish line instead of behind it. I would have preferred to race on the entire 48 foot long track. We chose to run on only a 32 foot track as that was what they would be racing on at the next level (District). The extra racing distance could have affected the outcome of the races.


Da Graphite Kid

[PinewoodPerformance]

anybody hear any of these things about the SuperTrack (ABS Plastic)?

[Darin McGrew]

We chose to run on only a 32 foot track as that was what they would be racing on at the next level (District). The extra racing distance could have affected the outcome of the races.

But would they be racing on a 32-foot aluminum track or a 32-foot wood track?

I would expect a 32-foot wood apple to be more like a 40-foot aluminum orange, and less like a 32-foot aluminum orange. Not that we're comparing apples and oranges...

[Buckeye]

So are you saying that a 40 or 42 foot aluminum would have comparable times to say a 32 foot Pantedosi? Our pack has a 32 wood Pantedosi and until this year our district has used a 32 wood track. Needless to say we were surprised when we go to the district derby this year to see a 42 foot Best aluminum track. I was concerned how my son's car would do with a 5/8" cog in a very thin wedge. We ended up winning both pack and Districts. But, the cars really come flying down that steep slope and that quick transition is scary. Unfortuneately they did not know how to assemble the track and they used 3 blankets for a stopper 6 inches after the finish gate. Needless to say there were several collisions and several boys cars were damaged to the point that they couldn't finish racing.
I think the track should be the standard 32 foot wood track or at least the new Pantedosi aluminum with the same curve as the wood. Most packs can't afford the new aluminum tracks and I believe the boys should race on the same type of track they qualify on.
We set rules on how the cars can be made and what can be used. Should there also be standards and rules that apply to the track???

[Stan Pope]

I think that you are in a good position to make a recommendation to the district race committee, since there are obviously no "sour grapes" involved.

Since each track style favors specific car characteristics, it only makes sense that the pack and district tracks match up. This is especially important if boys "win their way" to the district races. Packs that run on tracks different from the district track may not be sending their most competitive cars!

The new track may be a very nice track (when they figure out how to put it together correctly), but it does not sound like a good track for your district races.

Go get 'em!

[Da Graphite Kid]

We ran on a 32 foot aluminum Piantedosi at the Pack level and a 32 foot wooden Piantedosi at the District level. I bought the track that that our Pack raced on with the knowledge that an aluminum and wooden track could give different results for what was considered the 'fastest' cars. The decision to go aluminum was made due mainly to storage concerns, as I knew where it would be stored. The track was also purchased with the intention of very long term use with minimal maintenance and the hope of having more equal lanes. At that time, there wasn’t that much of a price difference between a wooden and an aluminum track. My Pinewood Derby Co-Chairman and I discussed track lengths and car speeds versus track surfaces and decided that there would be less 'discussion' from the parents if we just used the same track length as we would at the District level. Our intention was to get a print-out or file of the times after the District race and than compare that with times from our Pack race and possibly some test cars that were run at different track lengths. Than we would base our track length decision for next year on some hard numbers. Unfortunately, I have requested this data several times and have not even gotten a response back. From what I do remember of the race times, we saw slower times on the wooden track versus our aluminum track. Some of this could be due to the inexperience of the people who were staging the cars (some officer trainees). Some could have been due to the changes made to the cars between the races (there was only two cars from our Pack that went unchanged from our Pack race to the District race). I think that a lot of it was due to the track surface – not just that it was wood but that it was not as smooth as our aluminum track. I was assured that this track was smooth. I wasn’t allowed to get a close look at the surface but it looked dirty and worn from where I was sitting. If I recall correctly, there was difference in track times of about 0.150 seconds for my son’s car (it was not changed from the Pack race to the District race).

I believe that everyone should know by now that the 'perfect' pwd car for a 32 foot track won't be 'perfect' for a 40 or 48 foot track. This also influenced our decision to go with a 32 foot track versus a 40 or 48 footer.

I went with the Piantedosi track over the Best Track only because it used the same curve as their wooden tracks that I knew the boys would be racing on at the District level. I also knew that at least two of the three Districts in our Council have 32 foot wooden Piantedosi tracks. Also, according to information off of the Piantedosi web site, the curve on the Piantedosi track is more forgiving of a less than perfect car design than the Best Track is. I’ve also read that the Best Track is a faster track than the Piantedosi due to the curve area. While I would hope that all of the Cub Scouts “Do There Best” to try and make a perfect pwd car that is fastest, I also know that this is beyond the ability of most to do so. I was torn between having a track that was more forgiving yet slower and a less forgiving yet faster. I went with the more forgiving track for the boy’s sake.


I agree that ideally, the boys should race on the same length, type and surface track at the Pack level as they do at any level beyond that. Unless your Council or the National office for your organization specifies what must be used, there will always be differences – same as with the rules. I would hope that as a part of the rules for the next level, that the track specifications were also included for this reason. Our District does set regulations for the track to be used for the District PWD race and includes them in the rules that are distributed. I also agree that it is the boy who qualifies and not the car. For this reason and armed with the knowledge that he would be running on a different track, each boy should decide if they want to modify their Pack winning pwd car or not or even build another that is more suited to the track they will race on.

Just my $0.02
Da Graphite Kid

[Cory]

Our District does set regulations for the track to be used for the District PWD race and includes them in the rules that are distributed.

What do those regulations say?

[Stan Pope]

Than we would base our track length decision for next year on some hard numbers. Unfortunately, I have requested this data several times and have not even gotten a response back.

Attack this problem promptly ... before computer files are lost. You need to talk directly to the District PWD chairman, belly-button to belly-button as it were, to get this moving. Your data request needs to be sufficiently specific that they can satisfy it without a lot of "messing around."

There is no need for secrecy, and your request has good reason.

Messages via the district professional tend to lose meaning, and, with the priorities imposed on the district professional, they tend to shuffle below those activities that relate directly to continued employment ... Finance (meeting FOS goals) and Membership (meeting boy count and unit count goals.)

[Da Graphite Kid]

Stan,

A pair of e-mails, a phone call and one face-to-face to the District PWD Chairman and still no race data... We will probrably just run a 32 foot track again next year.


Cory,

Here are the track regulations:
"III. TRACK
A. The racetrack used at the District PD shall be built to the dimensions specified in the latest copy of the Cub Scout Leader's How To Book (Cat. No. P3831A). The surface and guide rails of the track are to be made of wood. The wood surface may be unfinished or finished with paint, lacquer, varnish, polyurethane, etc. An aluminum track may be used as long as it meets the proper specifications outlined above.

B. The track must be equipped with an electronic finish order detector system, with two PD officials verifying each race heat.


C. The track must be adjusted to be level across its width over the entire length of the track.

D. Joints between sections of the track must be adjusted to provide a smooth transition by the car. "


Da Graphite Kid