GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

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MT Pockets
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GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by MT Pockets »

Hello all!
First off - GPRM=Fantastic!

I was posting over in the track section, but since my questions are now getting into the software realm, I thought it best to come over here. I just purchased GPRM 10 and installed it and started messing around with it to get used to it. I have questions...

I have 1 Group Named Pack XXXX, and sub groups named Tigers, Wolf, Bear, Webelos. I've entered in 16 fictitious scouts (distributed between the sub groups). Created a schedule (Perfect-N) and ran the heats entering in test data. I have Timed Races method, average, and throw out the worst times turned on.

Once Round 1 in complete, how do I advance the #1 place finisher from each den, and the next 4 fastest cars (8 total cars) to a Grand Finals round?

Thanks!
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by gpraceman »

If you only have one race group, then you can start a Round 2 for it. A Grand Finals is only if you have multiple race groups.

You can start a round normally and if you wish to add/remove certain racers from that new round, then go to the Registration tab on the software. Check/uncheck the Finalist box (Grand Finalist box if for a GF round) for those particular racers. Then go and create your race schedule.
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by *5 J's* »

:offtopic: This is a bit off topic, but brings up a question. I plan on setting up the same. That is, one group named Pack XXXX, and sub groups named Tigers, Wolf, Bear, Webelos. Then create a schedule (Perfect-N),timed races method, average, and throw out the worst times turned on.

I had planned on identifying all winners at this point (top 5 overall, top 3 in each den, and fastest den). Do others run a Grand Finals Round? What are the Pros/Cons?
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by pack529holycross »

My experience has been to ignore "subgroups" and use groups for the ranks... also create an open class group and a sibling group. Subgroups, in my experience, has only really been for identifying specific groups of people within that group for data and reporting. Using Groups ( which I rename Division ) allows the system to then do your grand finals by selecting the number advanced from each group, then checking off the groups you want to advance ( in our case, scouts only )


We identify with the "Standings" feature the rank winners by reading all of the names from bottom to top ( the software reveals one name at a time ).. we give them their certificate printed out with the race data and place on it... and they stay at the awards area... then we get to the top 5 trophy winners, and then the top 4 are announced as well as identifying them as "finalists" .. by the time you give the Rank Champion his trophy and certificate... all the boys are together for a group shot, because most of the time those not in the finals leave ( unfortunately )... which is why we expanded the finals to keep more people there for the finals in the first place...

while all of that is going on, we generate the race schedule for the finals, and let them start staging the cars while we are announcing awards....
Last edited by pack529holycross on Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by dna1990 »

If you have more than say 8-10 scouts per rank - I prefer each 'rank' being a group versus using sub-groups. But maybe that is just habit. But I like the ability later on in scheduling/reporting/awards/etc - to work on the whole pack (Round1) or one rank at a time.

I guess it brings the question to Randy...are there major difference in using a Master Schedule and each rank is a Group vs using one group and schedule there, but use sub-groups to help with reporting/standingse/etc?

Either way, this only applies (I think) if you want one big race. If you want to race (schedule) by rank, then by all means I think making each rank a group is easiest.
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by gpraceman »

*5 J's* wrote:I had planned on identifying all winners at this point (top 5 overall, top 3 in each den, and fastest den). Do others run a Grand Finals Round? What are the Pros/Cons?
Again, a Grand Finals Round only applies if there are multiple race groups.

Running additional rounds is up to you. If scoring by points and you have a good size number of racers, it is recommended so you can trim down to a more reasonable number of racers that run for the trophies. Less ties to deal with that way.
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by Jetmugg »

MT Pockets - I think the more "conventional" way to set up such a race would be to create an entire data file for the Pack XXX, with the Groups being identified as "Tigers, Wolves, Bears, Webelos, etc". Then, typically, the sub-groups would be for different Dens within each group, or some other sub-division if it's not a Scouting type race.

I'm sure there are other ways to do it, but this seems to be the more standard method.

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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by gpraceman »

dna1990 wrote:I guess it brings the question to Randy...are there major difference in using a Master Schedule and each rank is a Group vs using one group and schedule there, but use sub-groups to help with reporting/standingse/etc?
Master Scheduling is just a way to keep all racers involved, instead of waiting for their group's turn to race, getting bored and possibly causing problems. Racers still race within their own group. Scheduling as one big group and using subgroups standings-wise does the same thing of keeping all involved.
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by pack529holycross »

dna1990 wrote:I guess it brings the question to Randy...are there major difference in using a Master Schedule and each rank is a Group vs using one group and schedule there, but use sub-groups to help with reporting/standingse/etc?


thats interesting.. I never thought about that aspect... how does the software deal with a single race group when it generates a schedule, if the group is broken down into subgroups? I would think if you are using a single group... then any car from any den is racing against any other car from any other den.... not an issue as far as Times Scoring, but might be less visually cogent for the casual observer to understand than a complete heat of tigers, a complete heat of wolves, etc... additionally, if you are taking the top 12 for example, and ignoring differences by rank because you have one giant group... those in a less experienced den are disadvantaged, and you could possibly have a disproportional participation in the finals ( ex - 8 out of 12 fastest cars are all WII / most experienced , and none in the tiger rank due to experience level.. ). This seems rather harsh way to determine qualifiers for finals, in that I personally would like to see the 4-5 fastest from EACH rank go against each other, even if there were technically faster cars in other dens that didn't make the cut.... just my opinion
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by gpraceman »

pack529holycross wrote:thats interesting.. I never thought about that aspect... how does the software deal with a single race group when it generates a schedule, if the group is broken down into subgroups? I would think if you are using a single group... then any car from any den is racing against any other car from any other den....
Subgroups have absolutely no bearing on who races who. That is controlled at the group level.
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by *5 J's* »

gpraceman wrote:
pack529holycross wrote:thats interesting.. I never thought about that aspect... how does the software deal with a single race group when it generates a schedule, if the group is broken down into subgroups? I would think if you are using a single group... then any car from any den is racing against any other car from any other den....
Subgroups have absolutely no bearing on who races who. That is controlled at the group level.
Okay. We have one den per rank, so four dens: Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Webelos. I want all to race against each other. I need to identify the top five fastest overall, I need to identify the top three in each den, and I need to identify the fastest den.

What is the recommended structure? Also, our pack size is approx 50 cubs. I do not think I need to pare down then have a Finals round. Thoughts?
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by gpraceman »

*5 J's* wrote:We have one den per rank, so four dens: Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Webelos. I want all to race against each other.
Then they should all be in the same race group, with subgroups for each of your dens.
*5 J's* wrote:I need to identify the top five fastest overall
Look at the Group standings.
*5 J's* wrote:I need to identify the top three in each den
Look at the Subgroup standings.
*5 J's* wrote:I need to identify the fastest den.
Look at the Team standings by Subgroup.
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by *5 J's* »

gpraceman wrote:
*5 J's* wrote:We have one den per rank, so four dens: Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Webelos. I want all to race against each other.
Then they should all be in the same race group, with subgroups for each of your dens.
*5 J's* wrote:I need to identify the top five fastest overall
Look at the Group standings.
*5 J's* wrote:I need to identify the top three in each den
Look at the Subgroup standings.
*5 J's* wrote:I need to identify the fastest den.
Look at the Team standings by Subgroup.
Excellent - thanks Randy. That's what I thought, but some of the suggestions in this thread had me second guessing myself.
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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by MT Pockets »

So after creating a test group, sub groups, and running the heats. Say that I want to advance the 1st place finisher from each den, plus the next 4 fastest cars to the finals round for a total of 8. First, I look at the stats for each Den, determine the first place in each den. Then I look at the stats for the whole group to determine the next fastest cars. Here is what the stat list looks like..

Place Time Subgroup
1 3.1199 Wolf - My Wolf 1st place winner
2 3.1654 Tiger - My Tiger 1st place winner
3 3.1707 Tiger - Next fastest
4 3.1845 Tiger - Next fastest
5 3.2824 Wolf - Next Fastest
6 3.3288 Bear - My Bear 1st place winner
7 3.3496 Wolf - Next Fastest
8 3.3893 Webelos - My Webelos 1st place winner
9 3.3968 Bear
10 3.4673 Bear

Going by the chart above, I've identified my den 1st place finishers, check. To determine the next 4 fastest, I then just start at the top and work down selecting the next 4 fastest for a total of 8. I then create a new round, go into registration and only select those 8 people, create a schedule, run the race. Does it sound like it's starting to sink in?

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Re: GPRM 10 - Logistics on best way to running the race

Post by gpraceman »

MT Pockets wrote:I then create a new round, go into registration and only select those 8 people, create a schedule, run the race.
That is more work than required. When you go to create a new round, tell the software to advance the top racer from each of your subgroups. The software will automatically advance those racers, so the only ones that you need to add manually are your next 4 fastest cars.
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