Air Power

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sporty
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Air Power

Post by sporty »

K, I am working on a car for a friends open class race.

I built a air powered car, this is not my first one. But still was fun, yet tricky to do. I used old style bsa wheels, to make razor type wheels, then drilled out for my bearings in the wheels.

I had most of what I needed, so I passed on the max-v kit. I hope I guessed right. I did not know the size of the fan or power (motor).

I bought a hyperflow, 56mm ducted fan system. this is for the r/c air jet planes, plenty of types to choose from.

This is a 11.1 volt brushed motor (370BB), woudld have rather paid the $$$ and gotten a brushless, but tight on $$$.

The voltage, current chart is a bit interesting.

3 lipo cells, 11.1v, 29,000 rpm.
burst use, 4 lipo cells,14.4v, 37,500 rpm.

I used a micro switch and a on/off switch.

I used at first a 9volt energizer, but did not seem to have the power / thrust I was looking for. Also after a few tries. It did not want to spin the motor.


So I then went to two, 9volts = 18 volts. this gave me a better thrust quicker. but still after a few uses. it would not turn the motor over. without some help.

So I went and got two lithium 9volts = 18 v and this so far, is giving me quick thrust and power and turning on like it should.

This motor is rated for 2300mah or thats what is recommended. I do not see on the 9v package what the amps are.

But at best 5 minutes of use is all that I will get out of it before the batteries are two week. The key is get to the bottom of the track fast and turn it off. The micro switch works good for the start gate, but not so good at shutting it down.

Total weight is about 9 oz. this is a 10oz class.

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I did not want to put much time into the looks and there is plenty of wire to be seen, but was fun to assemble and build. The zip ties were jarring loose at the finish line, so some glue was added to keep the motor in place.
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sporty
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Re: Air Power

Post by sporty »

time comparison with my track.

4 on the ground standard wheel base, 5 oz car, RR - 2.448

3 wheel car, with cant, RR, Oil car, 2.401

bearing car, three wheel - 2.385 ( should be a better time, but my track does not have the best finish on it. so it wants to catch these thinner wheels on the rail edge that is the edge to the track surface).

air powered car with razor wheels. 2.210.

I ran this car with 4 wheels. But all 4 do not touch.

Has anyone else seen or come up with a better battery method ? I was hoping Max-v might chime in on power consumption and ect with his kit he offers.

I think there is allot more speed here, its jsut in getting that motor to have full power when it comes on, instead of wind up. I was getting at first also with just 1 9volt or the two 9 volts, non lithium its seemed like it took 1 second or 1.3 seconds before it was at full power.

Now with the two lithium 9v, it seems to hit full power as soon as it turns on.

I have wanted to do a direct drive, ever since me and gobbuba go talked about one, he built one a few years ago. thats how long ago I talked about it, 2008 ??
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sporty
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Re: Air Power

Post by sporty »

Further info-


Here is pictures of the recommended power, battery packs.

This is not exact, but you can get the real idea, of what should be used for the motor I got.

3 cell, 2800 mah $24.00

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4cell, 14.8 v, this would be the for short bursts. perhaps ideal for this application. $48.00

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sporty
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Re: Air Power

Post by sporty »

A tad more quick research-


A standard 9v has about 280 to 300 mah, but rated for about only 4 seconds at that, its more a low mag over 8 to 10 hours of around 20-50 mah.

Your higher end batteries.

like what I got the energizer advanced lithium

1000 mah. continous, but I think for only a few minutes also.

As Mentioned I did not do a huge amount of research to gather up this info. But helps understand about what you need and what well really work for this type of motor / air car to use its full potential.

Also the MFG recommends use a ECS for this. More money for a control box, lol. we will get buy as is.

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tnux
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Re: Air Power

Post by tnux »

Looks realy cool. Personaly I think you might get a lot more air velocity out of it if the batteries and wires were out of the way. Mabe mount the battries flat on the base and set the fan above them so the air can flow through, might creat more thrust. :scratching:
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Re: Air Power

Post by sporty »

I actually had it more forward, but it was slower and a little more unstable, So I had done that, but I had to go with this for the better times on the track.

Ya I would like to have spent more time on it and did things differently.

But I think I have found my release from burned out pwd cars, to something close, yet different enough.
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whodathunkit
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Re: Air Power

Post by whodathunkit »

Yeah Sporty!
The Fan Power Cars are fun!
I two have found them to be a great release from burn out.

The one I built used Max-V's old motor style.
It probley would have ran a little faster if I would have switched the 9 volt
Deracell batterie over to an Energizer Advanced Lithium batterie at the time
as well.

I recall it ran a time of 2.290 at 221.8 mph on a 35ft Best Track.
I ended up useing plexi-glass to make the car body because the wood block
from the kit was twisted beyond use. And at the time I thought it might look
cool useing the plexi-glass!
My car weighed in at 5.3oz due to useing the plexi-glass!
I also used Derby Worx RS Wheels and Kytox running it 4 on the floor as well.
Just for fun at the end of the races it sure was a real crowd pleaser.

So I guess you have the times to compare your fan power cars to now!
photos of fan powered car I made (just for fun!)
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Last edited by whodathunkit on Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
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sporty
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Re: Air Power

Post by sporty »

whodathunkit


hay thanks for posting yours and the additonal comments.

I am really hoping people who have built them or moddified them, well step up and post and share. i think there is some real speed to be found and to tinker with here.

I know advanced technologies a member elsewhere, has a amazing super fast direct drive car with wheelie bars.

I think I would enjoy learning how to do one of them also.

I wondered what the max-v, motor is ? do you know ? did not know if it said on the kit or ect ?

Sporty
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Re: Air Power

Post by FatSebastian »

Last year we built a fan powered car (as first mentioned here) as a joke for an "all-comers" race that did not stipulate that the vehicle had to be gravity powered only. Surprisingly, it was allowed to compete!

A 5 ounce weight limit was in force, the original block had to be used, so we used the lightweight props, Li-Po batteries, and radio controls from an (now discontinued) Air Hogs Mini Storm Launcher. We mounted the engines and props in a plastic beverage bottle with the top and bottom cut off, and mounted the thin, lightweight battery underneath inside the block. We cut an access hole for the recharger jack and power switch into the bottom of the car. The idea was to throttle the engines up and down by radio control, instead of using a switch; that way we cut the power down as needed in the straightaway.

The car came in :2nd: because the props stopped working after the first run ( :1st: was a RR entered by a family member though ;) ). Our straight-on alignment was apparently good enough despite having a lousy CoM. I think the power failure was a wiring problem, not a dead battery problem. I could have done a better job wiring it up, but honestly we didn't think it would actually have to stand the rigors of racing. I thought we'd just run it across the floor a few times for a laugh.

I think the MaxV-style turbines might blow our little car prop away, which didn't require much power. I don't have a picture of it, but may try to take one if somebody is interested in seeing the design.
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sporty
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Re: Air Power

Post by sporty »

here is are 1st one we did a few years back, it was also controlled by a r/c remote control. I still like this method the best. I tried to re use the parts, but I burned it up, it was not designed to handle the current volts or draw for this bigger motor.

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Mostly made out of balsa wood and chrome vinyl was used, its a little tacky looking, but it was fun to do, but not very fast, needed bigger motors and more volts and amps.
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whodathunkit
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Re: Air Power

Post by whodathunkit »

Sporty!
I'm not sure on what motor it used back then to what is being use now.
I'll have to do a little looking threw some of the back issues!
Seems Randy did an article on it some time back in the news letters though!

I can help you with some direct drive cars he did an article on
vol 8 issue 3 oct 2008.direct drive
vol 8 issue 13 march 13 2009. Co2 power
vol 6 issue 15 april 18 2007 propeller car's

If i come up with the motor types for the fan power cars
I'll let you know Sporty!
Let's hope Randy will chime in and tell us though!

FS, IS FASTER AT THIS THEN I ... I SEE!
meaning I had to submit this after you two had posted!
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
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pwrd by tungsten
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Re: Air Power

Post by pwrd by tungsten »

Looks cool sporty!

You might try flipping the rear wheels? Might be worth a try...

Also can you get it any lighter?
W Racing!!!!
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sporty
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Re: Air Power

Post by sporty »

nope, not much there to get any lighter that would make much of a differance.
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Re: Air Power

Post by MaxV »

If you want to ramp up your propeller car, then you will want to look at this article from a recent newsletter. This new version uses capacitors to store up a big burst of power. Auto shutoff is also solved.
http://www.maximum-velocity.com/pinewoo ... mes-v10i5/

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sporty
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Re: Air Power

Post by sporty »

Thanks Randy,


Can you share with us, the motor size on your kits and rpm info ? I am wondering if what I have is over kill or what you have works better ?


At full speed, the motor I got is rated to handle 10oz r/c airplane and still fly in the air. I am thinking currently I am getting about 30-40,000 rpm with it.

Capacitors is a nice thing to try, not cheap at $14.00 each though, The rules for this race was 10oz, though, which allowed for the bigger fan and extra battery. I still had a weight savings though, still was under the 10oz.

It still amazes me what i can forget, been getting those news letters for several years now and still forget the good stuff in them. thanks for sharing that article again.

Sporty
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