When is your race?

[TDean]

Our Disrict races also take the top 3 from each Pack -- often there are only 60 -- 70 cars that show up. The races are held as part of the "entertainment" of our District's Scout Show. There is no registration fee for the District races -- but there are no participant patches or certificates either -- just trophies for the top 5 racers.

The boys do not place their cars on the track, and we do not have much of an announcer-- just someone calling out the numbers of the cars racing.

Hmm -- maybe I should step up and try to enliven things a bit...

[stefjeano]

I'm the Cubmaster of Pack 9 in Cresaptown, MD. Our Pinewood Derby race is Jan 25, 2004. We had Santa hand out the cars at our December Pack meeting. The Pack has 28 boys. Right now we borrow a track hopefully next year we can build our own. The boys really enjoy this and so does some of the dads(me).

[Eric E.]

Our pack race is always the Saturday before the superbowl. Kits are available for sale at the December pack meeting. No workshops or anything before the race. I did offer to do something at the December pack meeting but was not taken up on the offer yet.

The top three finishers in each den then go to district race which is always the fourth Saturday of April (Arbor Day for fellow tree huggers).

[Gavin Chafin]

Our Pack race is tomorrow (January 11th, 2004). The top 3 boys will then advance to the District Championship. 20 Packs go the the Distict Championship and there's normally about 60 or 70 kids that show up. Last year, only the top 3 finishers at Districts got trophies. I hope they change that this year.

[ExtremePWD]

Our pack race is January 23. Our district race is February 21. We trophy the top 4 in each age group for speed and 1 for best MPG. Four from each age group can advance to district. District goes 5 deep with trophies.

[Gavin Chafin]

We had our Pinewood Derby tonight. I won the adult division out of 14 cars and my son Garrett got 2nd in the Pack (out of 38 cars). The 1st place car was a good 2 or 3 inches faster.

I knew I was in trouble when this year’s car wasn’t even as fast as last year’s car. We seemed to have major alignment problems that we couldn’t quite overcome. In this respect, I honestly believe that the Pro-body tool may have hurt more than it helped. When you use the tool, it creates a circle high in the axle slot that the nail then wants to follow when you push the nail in…making alignment a much more difficult process (at least it was for me). I give very high marks for the Pro-hub, Pro-Axle, Pro-Mandrel, and Pro-wheel shaver tools, but I think I’ll be skipping the Pro-body tool and simply resorting to pre-examining the slots for straightness and using wax shims for making minor alignments. I didn’t have alignment problems the last two years and this was the only year I had problems.

Also, lifting the wheel really seemed to add to my alignment problems as well. Even though the car would roll straight on a table, it seemed to smack against the center guide a lot going down the track. Every car that we built seemed to have the same problem. Our fastest car only became the fastest when I lowered the raised wheel (although, it probably ended up being a sliver raised).

As for Tungsten weight, definitely out from now on. Drilling that stuff out to make weight was an absolute nightmare. Lead or solder will get the car low just fine.

We had two kids show up with non-BSA kit cars. The axles were 1 piece (instead of nails) and the wheels were way different. Of course both parents said that they never got the rules; the rules were included in a bag in each kit that was handed out and the rules were stated at the Pack meeting. The one guy changed the wheels and nails, but the other came in as the race was starting and there wasn’t time to make adjustments. The Cubmaster said that we’d have to deal with it later.

[terryep]

Congrats Gavin. You guys had fun I trust? Did the non-BSA cars do well?

Terry

[Stan Pope]

We had our Pinewood Derby tonight. I won the adult division out of 14 cars and my son Garrett got 2nd in the Pack (out of 38 cars). The 1st place car was a good 2 or 3 inches faster.

I knew I was in trouble when this year’s car wasn’t even as fast as last year’s car. We seemed to have major alignment problems that we couldn’t quite overcome. In this respect, I honestly believe that the Pro-body tool may have hurt more than it helped. When you use the tool, it creates a circle high in the axle slot that the nail then wants to follow when you push the nail in…making alignment a much more difficult process (at least it was for me). I give very high marks for the Pro-hub, Pro-Axle, Pro-Mandrel, and Pro-wheel shaver tools, but I think I’ll be skipping the Pro-body tool and simply resorting to pre-examining the slots for straightness and using wax shims for making minor alignments. I didn’t have alignment problems the last two years and this was the only year I had problems.

The hole high in the slot that the nail wants to follow is the point! Was the slot square originally? Was the hole well centered in the slot? Was the tool squared to a reference side of the block prior to drilling? (I found that necessary, even with a snug fit of the tool to the block. In fact, to assure that the squared setup was maintained, I clamped them together!) Achieving up-down adjustment with shims is more difficult with slots, but it can be done by working the lower edge or upper edge of both sides.

Also, lifting the wheel really seemed to add to my alignment problems as well. Even though the car would roll straight on a table, it seemed to smack against the center guide a lot going down the track. Every car that we built seemed to have the same problem. Our fastest car only became the fastest when I lowered the raised wheel (although, it probably ended up being a sliver raised).

How far behind your son were #3, 4, and 5? Did they also have rail banging problems? Was the track checked for level side to side?

My thought here is that the track may be off level side-to-side. If so, then good alignment (which all of the racers usually strive for) hurts a bit vs a car that has compensated. This is not intended as an accusation of wrong-doing or of manipulation, but as an observation and question.

As for Tungsten weight, definitely out from now on. Drilling that stuff out to make weight was an absolute nightmare. Lead or solder will get the car low just fine.

Ouch!

We had two kids show up with non-BSA kit cars. The axles were 1 piece (instead of nails) and the wheels were way different. Of course both parents said that they never got the rules; the rules were included in a bag in each kit that was handed out and the rules were stated at the Pack meeting. The one guy changed the wheels and nails, but the other came in as the race was starting and there wasn’t time to make adjustments. The Cubmaster said that we’d have to deal with it later.

Here is where I really like multiple elimination / no-chart. It accomodates late comers gracefully with only a modest penalty for tardiness.

As for the parents involved, I don't know of a cure for not caring.

[Gavin Chafin]

Congrats Gavin. You guys had fun I trust? Did the non-BSA cars do well?

Terry

Terry, Pinewood night is the greatest night of the year. The night was a blast. I just have a general sense of frustration. I thought it'd be a given that this year's car would be faster than last years.

I was quite busy at the car table and didn't keep an eye on the non-BSA cars. I know for a fact that the one that had to change the wheels at the last second didn't do well. And the guy who won used the BSA kit. It's possible that the other non-BSA car could have come in third or fourth, although I doubt it.

[Gavin Chafin]

Stan:
The hole high in the slot that the nail wants to follow is the point! Was the slot square originally?

Gavin:
Yes, I believe that they were.

Stan:
Was the hole well centered in the slot?

Gavin:
Pretty well.

Stan:
Was the tool squared to a reference side of the block prior to drilling? (I found that necessary, even with a snug fit of the tool to the block. In fact, to assure that the squared setup was maintained, I clamped them together!)

Gavin:
Not sure if I follow. The tool was pressed snugly onto the bottom of the block prior to any cutting. It was the very first step. I clamped it down as well.

Stan:
Achieving up-down adjustment with shims is more difficult with slots, but it can be done by working the lower edge or upper edge of both sides.

Gavin:
I agree with you here. I think it’s brutally difficult. But, I do believe it was easier without the Pro-Body tool. The hole that the tool makes the nail follow makes manipulating the nail difficult. For the average person who doesn’t want to perfect alignment, the tool is great. But, if you want to perfect it a little…well, I was pulling my hair out.

Stan:
How far behind your son were #3, 4, and 5? Did they also have rail banging problems? Was the track checked for level side to side?

Gavin:
My son was a comfortable second. Probably beat the next guy be 3, maybe 4 inches. I was watching my son's car and the fastest car and didn't notice the others. They really weren't in the race. The fastest car seemed to be pretty well aligned. I didn't notice as much banging. Also, he told me that he did lift a wheel.

Stan:
My thought here is that the track may be off level side-to-side.

Gavin:
Don’t think so. I went over every seam of the track, including the starting line, with 2 different levels to ensure that the track was level going from side to side.

[TDean]

Gavin wrote--

We had our Pinewood Derby tonight. I won the adult division out of 14 cars and my son Garrett got 2nd in the Pack (out of 38 cars). The 1st place car was a good 2 or 3 inches faster.

Congrats Gavin! -- sounds like a night to be proud of! Though I understand your frustration with your car not performing as perfectly as you had hoped.

We had two kids show up with non-BSA kit cars. The axles were 1 piece (instead of nails) and the wheels were way different.

I know these type of wheels/axles well. I was in a race (for adults) where these kits were given out and we were asked to use the axles/wheels provided. My car came in second that year -- the winner was the only guy to use official BSA wheels and nail axles. The next year, I entered 5 cars (!), but one of mine had BSA wheels. You guessed it. That car came in first -- with 2nd and 3rd going to the only two other cars (out of 60ish) that also used BSA wheels/axles. SO, as long as they allow BSA wheels and axles -- I'm sticking with those!

[Stan Pope]

Stan:
Was the tool squared to a reference side of the block prior to drilling? (I found that necessary, even with a snug fit of the tool to the block. In fact, to assure that the squared setup was maintained, I clamped them together!)

Gavin:
Not sure if I follow. The tool was pressed snugly onto the bottom of the block prior to any cutting. It was the very first step. I clamped it down as well.

I found that there was some slight movement in the tool even after shimming it with a couple sheets of paper. The movement in question is a rotation about a vertical axis and would cause the car to steer in a large circle. I could observe the motion more easily with a try square aligned to the side of the block and the long side of the tool.

I checked both front and rear using the same side of the block, of course.

[Gavin Chafin]

Stan, since Districts doesn't have any stated rules against building new cars, I'm going to build 2 new cars. This time, I'm going to skip the Pro-Body tool step and see if the alignment problem is in my head or a result of wrestling with the tool. Dunno. Maybe I wasn't using the tool exactly right. It seemed to make raising a wheel a tad more difficult as well. Normally, I think the other wheels would have used the bottom of the slot and the raised wheel would have just used the top of the slot. This way, the raised wheel could have been somewhat aligned in case that wheel happed to tap the track. But, since the wheels all want to follow the hole created by the tool, raising a wheel was difficult and it didn't seem to come into alignment for me. The raised wheel always seemed to have a toe-out problem. I believe this contributed to the car smacking against the inside of the track. Perhaps it'd be another idea to use the tool, but not drill one side of the front. Dunno.

[BlackDodgeRam4x4]

Our Pack's race is generally held at the end of January, this year it will be January 30th. We always pass out the derby kits to the scouts as a gift at our anual Toys For Tots bowl-a-thon the first Saturday in December, this gives the boys plenty of time to work on their cars, although I know of some who haven't even unwrapped their kit yet!!!!!!!....our district race is held in the middle of Feb.

[Whistler]

Gavin,

We haven't had our race yet (as with one other poster our race is typically held the weekend before the superbowl - we gave out our kits in the November pack meeting so we can hold a PWD building workshop in our Dec meeting - of course I know of some boys who haven't opened the box yet as well).

In any event this year we have used the Pro Body tool on two cars. Due to the car's design and geometry we definitely clamped down the tool, and, since the blocks are typically not square, set up two parallel lines to ensure that the tool was set well. We sanded the sides down a bit so that the tool could be shifted to suit. To raise one front wheel we hand drilled the raised wheel hole, after marking where the tool would have drilled with a mechanical pencil lead. Actually one of our cars was only 1/4" thick in the front, so to raise the wheel we just flipped the tool to the "top" of the block and that worked nicely to set the wheel higher but still parallel.

Initial testing of this alignment has indicated that the cars track better than any others we've made, even without shimming. We do final shimming after painting, so I guess we will see, but I'm very hopeful and inclined to trust the tool. Certainly much better than any drill press we've used in the past (though my drill press is an old damaged one that I picked up very cheap, and it may not be strictly aligned...)