District Champion -- despite "new" rules

[2kids10horses]

Hearing this makes me sick. We don't impound cars until the day of the race at our District race, so there is no chance for an official to mess with the cars, however, our rules can be interpreted differently by different people depending upon their bias.

In fact, I was told that there was someone who wanted to be on the checkin commitee very badly. It turns out he wanted to DQ cars. The car my son ran last year would have been DQ'ed if HIS interpretation were used. (My son's car was entered into the COUNCIL race last year and passed with no issues.)

Anyway, when I heard that someone wanted to change the rules at the last minute (well... two weeks before the District) race, I called the Council Rules Chairman to get a clarification, and he agreed that it was too late to change the rules, and the mods my son's car has are legal.

Hopefully, I've staved off any controvercy. Our District race is this Saturday.

2k10h

[Go Bubba Go]

...Right before racing began, the District Derby Chair approached the crowd and mentioned how many cars came to "registration" the night before with a lifted wheel. He noted how this was an advantage of "less friction," [his words not mine!] and proceeded to say that he and the staff fixed the problem after the registration by bending the wheels down on these cars! UNBELIEVABLE!

...Further, the Chair determined that several cars with cheater bars on front (also not mentioned in rules) were illegal and had to be run backward - again, no chance for remedy by the "offending" parties, even though the rules were put in place after the impound!

...Obviously they missed a few of the 3-wheelers, but a boy scout mentioned that indeed they bent the wheels on many cars.

While I have written against the "string 'em up" solution in other posts about poorly run races, I think I will make an exception here.

Making such apparently unilateral changes, neither asking nor even informing the participants ahead of time is irresponsible and shows either contempt for the participants or just plain arrogance, if not both.

Not giving the owners an opportunity to somehow remedy their violation of the "new" rules gives further evidence of arrogance and/or contempt.

But to actually modify the cars without the owners previous consent or even knowledge is simply beyond the pale.

I don't typically lean in this direction at all, but this situation would have me looking for a tall Oak tree and a short piece of BigDozer's rope.

One question: Were the owners there for "registration" the night before and given the OK, then the changes made afterward? Or were the owners not even present at "registration"?

We impound the cars for our Council races (sealed in a box by the Owner at Pack, opened by the Owner in front of the inspector at Council). The only person who has any "private access" to the cars is the Pack Pinewood Derby chairman, and during that time the cars are sealed up in their boxes. Neither the Scout, nor the Officials, have "private access" at any time after the car is sealed up at the Pack races.

[Mike Doyle]

One question: Were the owners there for "registration" the night before and given the OK, then the changes made afterward? Or were the owners not even present at "registration"?

Yes we were present for check-in as was everyone else participating, it was the night before the race. They used what appeared to be a medical scale reading in grams, when we arrived there were fathers lining the entrance hurridley drilling out weight. We were underweight so it was no big deal, (except for me, I eat too much).

[Go Bubba Go]

One question: Were the owners there for "registration" the night before and given the OK, then the changes made afterward? Or were the owners not even present at "registration"?

Yes we were present for check-in as was everyone else participating, it was the night before the race.

Was anything said to the participants during registration about 3 wheeler's or cheater bars?

Joe's initial post made it sound like you had people who were OK'd at registration and went home, only to come back the next day and find out "just before the start of the races" that they had subsequently been classified as "not OK" post-registration (and in the case of the 3 wheelers - "fixed" by the officials).

Not trying to be dense here, just having a hard time understanding how this could occur.

[doct1010]

Bubba,
That was my understanding from Joe's post. Cars were registered and inspected then impounded night before. Just prior to racing beginning the "BIG" announcement was made. It seems tampering took place while in the custody of the derby chair during impound. Thats my read.

[GimpyPaw]

I don't want to sound like a hot head or anything, but, and I'm not joking about this, had a car my son and I built been tampered with in that manner, one of the following resolutions would have occurred ...

1) The Dist. Chair would have gone out to the parking lot to find his car now had a "lifted wheel".

0r

2) The Dist. Chair would find himself involved in a small claims court proceeding to discuss compensation for his vandalism to my personal property.

How DARE he alter or damage another person's property without their consent? How arrogant can a person be?

[Bulldog]

I don't want to sound like a hot head or anything, but, and I'm not joking about this, had a car my son and I built been tampered with in that manner, one of the following resolutions would have occurred ...

1) The Dist. Chair would have gone out to the parking lot to find his car now had a "lifted wheel".

0r

2) The Dist. Chair would find himself involved in a small claims court proceeding to discuss compensation for his vandalism to my personal property.

How DARE he alter or damage another person's property without their consent? How arrogant can a person be?

I honestly don't know how I would react in the given situation, and hopefully I never have to find out. But we should always try to keep in mind that everything we do will set an example for the boys, be it positive or negative. So, I don't think vandalizing the man's car would be in the best interest of anyone. However, I'm sure I would have raised quite a stink about it- standing up for one's rights is a fine example to set for the boys! It's just a matter of whether or not it can be done calmly and without allowing emotional anger to lead to physical anger. It takes a special breed to accomplish that.

[Mike Doyle]

Joe's description is correct as is your interpretation. It sounds unbelievable but its true

The cars were inspected and impounded overnight, during impound they were adjusted to comply with the complainer's wishes and the following morning at the start of the first heat we were all told about it.

After spending most of the night in the ER with my oldest son, the best example I could manage to set was to keep calm and quiet. It is after all a race for the scout's enjoyment, and I feel discussion (which will be especially through) should take place outside earshot of youngsters.

[pwdarchitect]

After spending most of the night in the ER with my oldest son, the best example I could manage to set was to keep calm and quiet. It is after all a race for the scout's enjoyment, and I feel discussion (which will be especially through) should take place outside earshot of youngsters.

This right here is what made you a Champion for the day! Good for you and very commendable.

J

[PWD]

First off, congrats to Joe, Mike and your boys!

I have been on the forum for almost four years and this definitely falls into the top 5 of unbelievable PWD happenings. It might be #1.

What was done here is just unacceptable.
But a big problem is all of the other parents complaining. This is unfair and that is unfair. Things they just don't know anything about. The one I see all the time is the wheels have been painted when graphite/moly has been rubbed on the wheel.

I worry that some packs will just say it is not worth it. Too many parents are unhappy.

[psycaz]

Mike,

You're definitely a better man than I. I would not have been able to contain myself on that one.

Are there any plans that you are aware of to take the issue to the district executives or council to ensure that it never happens again?

I would hope that after such an egregious act, that those involved be requested to not have a hand in storing the cars again. There is no guarantee next time they won't do the same thing again, just not tell anyone.

Such a breach of trust should have ramifications.

Sorry if I seem really harsh about this, but I can't imagine it being considered ok for someone to deliberately damage someone else's property without their consent just because they don't consider it acceptable.


Saying that its only the PWD and they got to race anyways doesn'ty fly. It sends the wrong message. Especially to the boys.

The message that rules don't apply to those with power is not what was/is supposed to be conveyed by this.

[joe]

Was anything said to the participants during registration about 3 wheeler's or cheater bars?

Joe's initial post made it sound like you had people who were OK'd at registration and went home, only to come back the next day and find out "just before the start of the races" that they had subsequently been classified as "not OK" post-registration (and in the case of the 3 wheelers - "fixed" by the officials).

Bubba, as hard as it is to believe (you have to think out of the box here!) that's what happened. Nothing was said to me or my son, or to Mike. We registered two cars (one was a pack member that could not attend), and Mike registered two cars. I don't think our 2 were tampered with as I gave them foam core "stands" to set the cars on and keep the wheels off the carpet -- yes, they were placed on the floor! Consequently they probably didn't recognize that our 2 cars each had a lifted wheel. I don't think ANYBODY was told of this, until the announcement right before the first race. And the Chair specifically said in the announcement that "WE" made all 4 wheels touch in order to make things fair! A boy scout verified this.

I would like to agree with Mike, that the subject was best not approached at that time for a variety of reasons. One being I didn't want to embarrass my son in front of his friends, and another being we had already waited more than an hour for the races to start.

I have been on the forum for almost four years and this definitely falls into the top 5 of unbelievable PWD happenings. It might be #1.

We're # 1!

[Go Bubba Go]

Bubba, as hard as it is to believe (you have to think out of the box here!) that's what happened.

I would like to agree with Mike, that the subject was best not approached at that time for a variety of reasons. One being I didn't want to embarrass my son in front of his friends, and another being we had already waited more than an hour for the races to start.

I think you are both right, it was probably not the right time.

When a man takes the pains it appears he did to cut off any opportunity for protest, he was probably mentally "locked and loaded" for a confrontation that would have had virtually no upside whatsoever. He could just be one of those characters that turns South when provided with an audience and a little authority.

Sometimes you just have to let the Wolf run for the night, and take him out in the daylight.

I have been on the forum for almost four years and this definitely falls into the top 5 of unbelievable PWD happenings. It might be #1.

We're # 1!

It's right up there with the all the cars that were lost at a National event a couple of years ago when somebody got the bright idea to use the winning entries as table ornaments at a breakfast for the participants, and apparently forgot to tell the busboys what to do with them after the meal was over. I don't know if the poor boys ever got their cars back.

[festiva91]

Nothing but a nightmare scenario. It is sad that one person playing the almighty does things unilaterally. Something similar happened to us.

[RMoose]

UNBELIVEABLE! It's been a long time (35+ years) since I was involved in Scouting, but I really hope this situation doesn't get dropped and something is done about this! This person is representing the district and Scouting to these Cubs and their families. Just think what this person is saying through his actions:

1. Scouts are supposed to be honest. Yet this official has in fact lied by telling these boys that their cars passed inspection (followed the rules); only to tell them the next day that no, they did not follow the "real" rules - which were never written down or spelled out prior to the race - and in fact did not pass!

2. Scouts are supposed to be trustworthy. The whole idea of impounding cars should be to assure everyone no cars are altered by anyone between inspection and racing. Yet here, the person who tampered is the very person charged with making sure tampering does not occur! He says only the raised axle was lowered, but how can he be trusted? What else, unknown by the Boy Scouts, may have been "corrected"? How can this person ever be trusted by anyone present at this event?

3. Is this really the message the District wants to sent to Cubs/Families? Does any of this promote the positive message of Scouting, or does it in fact undermine what Scouting is trying to teach?

Credibility and trust are essential if the race is to be perceived as fair, and I don't see how that could be possible for next year's race if this situation isn't dealt with