Oh no! Lightened wheels are legal again!

[2kids10horses]

This is unbelievable. I've just been informed that the Council has changed their minds, and lightened wheels are once again legal.

We were told one day before our District race they were banned, so we were barely able to strip our car, make legal wheels, and make the race.

Of course, it ran poorly in comparison to how it used to run.

Now, they've come out and said the old rules apply, lightened wheels are NOT ILLEGAL (at least not this year), so we shouldn't have banned the wheels.

Well, all that did was eliminate my kid from the Council race.

I think it was my construction photos here on DerbyTalk that someone else in my District saw, and recognised that it would be a fast car, and they lobbied to get it DQed. They succeeded.

I guess no good deed goes unpunished. My intention was to help others build fast cars. But, all it got was an effective DQ for my son.

How do I explain to him how this happened?

2k10h

[Stan Pope]

This is unbelievable. I've just been informed that the Council has changed their minds, and lightened wheels are once again legal.

We were told one day before our District race they were banned, so we were barely able to strip our car, make legal wheels, and make the race.
...

How do I explain to him how this happened?

2k10h

First you must have an explanation (with details) from the individual or committee that is responsible for the mess ... then you can "clean up the explanation" for your son.

It would be reasonable for you to explore with that committee/individual how they might "make it right" with the boys who were adversely affected by their ill-timed actions. For instance, they could give a free pass into the council races to each boy who was forced by the rule to change wheels and lighten their car body. (That seems fair to me!)

[psycaz]

That's unbelievable!. Nice to see them admit their mistake, but in the same sense, it really does look like someone made your son a target to be dq'd.

I'm with Stan, try to get an explanation and maybe a timeline. Someone has to know that all of this comes out looking very bad.

I would try to maybe have someone from council involved with the discussions who was not involved with making the rule changes. At least then you hopefully have an impartial viewpoint while you're trying to make you case and points.

Because really, it only sounds like your son was affected as you let the other cars go because it was the right thing to do.

Good luck with however you decide to proceed.

[2kids10horses]

Well, we already get a "Free Pass" to ScoutBlast (where the race is held) because we sold Discount Coupons, and it includes free admission. Besides, the event is about 100 miles away. And if there are cars running with lightened wheels... well, I would probably say something I'd regret later. Better not to go. I wouldnt want to ruin the event for those who earned a spot to be there.

I don't know if there were any other kids affected. There was a notice posted on the outside door at the gym where we held the District race stating lightened wheels were illegal, and posted photos taken off the DerbyWorx site showing the lightened wheels.

Someone who had those wheels may have seen the sign, and went home.

There were a couple of other District races that same day, so they might have had affected boys, too.

It's a shame it's turned out this way.

2k10h

[Bulldog]

I must say I would be extremely disappointed in he flip-flopping of rules like this. Seems to be that somone is trying to appease several different people with different opinions.

Now my opinion is that the race should be stock, with no customized wheels aloowed, with the exception of open or outlaw classes. This makes it more fair to the people without access to certain equipment or funds.

I would never, however advocate changing such a critical rule mistream. That is just plain irresponsible.

[TAL]

Is an actual written rule being changed flip flop , or is an interputation of a written rule being changed flip flop...

Am I understanding this correctly , Do or did your (council, district, pack ) rules actually say in writing something like

-No machined wheels

-No lightened wheels

-No lathed wheels

-Machined wheels are not allowed

[2kids10horses]

The actual wording says "Lathe type wheels are not allowed". The question then becomes, what are lathe type wheels?

So, I asked what the intent was! I personally spoke to the guy who made the rules and runs the Council race. He told me it's to prevent V, H, and U profile wheels, the tread should be flat and wide, and specificly, the thin 'razor' wheels are prohibited. That's what "lathe type" means because you have to have a lathe to do that.

So, I went a step farther and asked if I could remove material from the inside of the wheel, the non surface contact area. He asked, to make the wheels lighter so you can put the weight in the body of the car? I said yes. He said, yes, that's legal. You have to have 4 wheels touching, treads wide and flat.

He told me this 2 weeks before the District race. Then on the Thursday evening before the Saturday morning race, I hear he's changed his mind, and banned the lightened wheels. So, I called him again.

This time, he says, no, that's not allowed. He goes on to say that I couldn't mount them on a mandrel and spin them on a power drill. That would be "machining the wheels, and that's not allowed".

Knowing I'd be checked very carefully, that's what I did. Hand sanded without benefit of any power tool. They ran awful.

Then, I get word that since the word hadn't gotten out to everyone, the lightened wheels WOULD be allowed!

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

So, I sent him an e-mail, and he tells me that no, he's steadfast, no lightened wheels will be allowed at Council.

HOLD ON!

So, today was the Council race. A car that ran a week before mine had lightened wheels, and won it's District was allowed to run! The Dad explained that he lightened his wheels using a Dremmel tool!

Excuse me? This is not lightening the wheels? I couldn't use a hand drill, but some guy can use a Dremmel? Heck, I have a Dremmel! I guess I asked the wrong question! I shouldn't have asked if I could use my hand power tool, I should have asked if I could use my Dremmel!

I'm sure he passed on them because the boy didn't know, had won his District, and there he was at Council. Is this fair? Not in any way, shape, or form.

Two other Districts run in the morning before the Council race in the afternoon. I have no idea if what rules they ran under.

I'll find out more details and post the happenings.

I think I should change this thread's name to "How NOT to run a Council Derby race".

2k10h

[Stan Pope]

So, I sent him an e-mail, and he tells me that no, he's steadfast, no lightened wheels will be allowed at Council.

HOLD ON!

So, today was the Council race. A car that ran a week before mine had lightened wheels, and won it's District was allowed to run! The Dad explained that he lightened his wheels using a Dremmel tool!

My first thought was that the PTB (Council Power That Be) assumed the Dremmel would be hand-held and used like a dentist would use his drill to route out bits and pieces of wheel. It is possible (but not likely) that the other lightened wheels were formed in that way.

That leaves you with Teeeman's approach (with the wheel on a stationary post, hand twisted against the spinning cutting tool ... sanding drum, mill, etc) as a viable precision wheel prep method.

But, more to the point, the PTB communications procedure falls rather short. The PTB had given an answer directly. Then, contrary info was communicated through other means with no assurance that it would get back to you. At that point you had the option of ignoring the rumors about change or of going back to him for confirmation. (I think that he was, at that point, obligated to contact you that he changed his mind or to communicate through established formal channels that builders were responsible to monitor.) You chose the honorable route! You tried to be "one of the good guys".

But why was there a problem in the first place? The rule was poorly constructed. It (apparently) tried to limit form (what the wheel can look like) by proscribing method or process (how the wheel can be worked.)

So, I think your council has two needs:
1. An improved communication process, and
2. An improved set of rules.