Do you hold back info locally?

General discussions for car and semi-truck racers.
JSG
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by JSG »

I've found that very few if any parents or kids want to put in the time and effort it takes to build a really fast car. Others who do try to compete don't want any "speed secrets" given out. I'm pretty open to giving out advice. The two boys we helped this year won their dens. My goal this year will be to have two test & tune days and possibly a one hour build clinic. I know that will ruffle some feathers within the pack.
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by doct1010 »

Darin McGrew wrote:
doct1010 wrote:He led our most recent workshop and I assisted, looking for reassurance on only the more technical.
That is wonderful! You must be so proud...
Yes Darin, very proud. We discussed it a week prior to workshops, he had some doubt. I reassured him I would be there if he stumbled or went astray. It amazed me to hear him articulate and explain the basic to more complex. I think the cubs made a special connection. He handled the Q&A like a pro, deferring to me only on the most technical and then only for reassurance he was on right path.
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by tmbnorm »

Last year, my son's car won Pack undefeated.
We had a test and tune before the district. We were able to get the car a little faster. The car that came in 3rd at Pack was running really slow... the Dad was about to give up on trying to get it right. I took the car.. made it a 3 wheeler, did a quick alignment and boom, it was faster than my Son's car.

We got the the District and friend's car came in first and my Son's car came in second.



This year, my Son's car was undefeated at Pack and District. The second place car at District was from our Pack too.
They did not do very well at Pack, but after some better axle prep by the other Dad and cub, my son and I aligned the car and lubed it up during testing.. it was super fast. I love helping others get their car faster.
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by doct1010 »

tmbnorm wrote: I love helping others get their car faster.
Good for you! 8) I feel the same. My son didn't always agree. In some ways a blow out victory is a bit hollow. Raise the level of competition and it becomes more rewarding, imo.

I am as competitive as most, except I don't hate losing just prefer winning.
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FatSebastian
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by FatSebastian »

doct1010 wrote:
tmbnorm wrote: I love helping others get their car faster.
Good for you! 8) I feel the same. My son didn't always agree. In some ways a blow out victory is a bit hollow. Raise the level of competition and it becomes more rewarding, imo.
My sentiments as well. I'll add that, when racing kid-built cars, we have yet to experience a "blow out" victory; we always have one or two other families that are competitive and 2nd place always seems to be within a fraction of a car length at the finish line. This might explain why our sons haven't felt a strong need to help the competition.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by Stan Pope »

tmbnorm wrote:The car that came in 3rd at Pack was running really slow... the Dad was about to give up on trying to get it right. I took the car.. made it a 3 wheeler, did a quick alignment and boom, it was faster than my Son's car.
When so involved, do you
1. Change the car yourself with no explanation,
2. Change the car yourself with explanation, or
3. Explain the changes while the owner makes the changes?

What are the teaching/sharing considerations for each alternative?
Stan
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rpcarpe
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by rpcarpe »

On fixing cars with or for folks... I always explain options then let them choose to do it and whenever possible... teach the Cub to do it. Single parents have shown up w/ hardly a clue... patient explanations and deomonstrations, then let them do the work. If they're aren't comfortable bending axles or something, then and only then will I lend my hands.

Others?
My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.
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Nitro Dan
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by Nitro Dan »

FatSebastian wrote:I have read stories about kids suffering in the standings after their fathers were very open about sharing their car-building tricks in their unit - with the fathers later regretting it. While DT participants tend to be very generous with information over the Internet, how guarded are you (or not) regarding the sharing of potentially advantageous information within your own unit?
It was my son's decision that we share everything. The first year we were in Pinewood Derby, his car beat everyone in his Den by four feet! After the race he didn't seem that excited about the win. I asked him what was wrong and he told me it was "to easy". The race wasn't challenging enough for him, because he knew what it took to win and all of his friends didn't.

The following year, I proposed and volunteered to run our first workshops at our pack. My son and I share all our information. Now when we win, we do so by fractions of an inch. Sure, we lose to others from time to time, but with us, it's the challenge, not the winning that drives us. I've had a few parents tell me I'm crazy for sharing this information, but we continue to do it.

Also by giving away all our information, it forces us to experiment and research more to come up with even better ways of creating the fastest cars we possibly can. We become much more open minded and creative, not to mention the vast amounts of knowledge we've accumulated.

Although my son just finished his fifth year with the cub scout, my middle daughter just started Girls Scouts and we are all looking forward to sharing our information with a new group of people. Being a Pinehead has opened a lot of doors of opportunity in my community during the last five years and I don't think any of it would have been possible had we not decided to share our information from the beginning.

-Nitro Dan
Take good and make it great. Take fast and make it faster. Performance drives success!
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by *5 J's* »

Nitro Dan wrote: It was my son's decision that we share everything. The first year we were in Pinewood Derby, his car beat everyone in his Den by four feet! After the race he didn't seem that excited about the win. I asked him what was wrong and he told me it was "to easy". The race wasn't challenging enough for him, because he knew what it took to win and all of his friends didn't.

The following year, I proposed and volunteered to run our first workshops at our pack. My son and I share all our information. Now when we win, we do so by fractions of an inch. Sure, we lose to others from time to time, but with us, it's the challenge, not the winning that drives us. I've had a few parents tell me I'm crazy for sharing this information, but we continue to do it.

Also by giving away all our information, it forces us to experiment and research more to come up with even better ways of creating the fastest cars we possibly can. We become much more open minded and creative, not to mention the vast amounts of knowledge we've accumulated.

Although my son just finished his fifth year with the cub scout, my middle daughter just started Girls Scouts and we are all looking forward to sharing our information with a new group of people. Being a Pinehead has opened a lot of doors of opportunity in my community during the last five years and I don't think any of it would have been possible had we not decided to share our information from the beginning.

-Nitro Dan
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1Dad2Scouts
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by 1Dad2Scouts »

I have no speed secrets to share with the competition (4th place in den for my 2 boys), I do have tips on painting and building a better looking car. I'm a car painter by trade and a model builder for a hobby. When we got home from the weigh-in and tech night I told my wife I'd never seen so many "ugly cars". She reminded me that not every parent has 30 years of painting experience or nearly a lifetime of model building skills under their belts and that no other father she knew of had a paint booth in their basement!
After our Derby a few of the Scouts and their fathers asked about the "cool paint". My reply was next year come Derby time contact me and we'll set up a time to come over and use the stuff in my basement. Maybe I can trade paint tips for speed tips!!
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FatSebastian
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by FatSebastian »

1Dad2Scouts wrote:Maybe I can trade paint tips for speed tips!!
Hopefully DT will be helpful enough to you that you can give paint and speed tips next year. ;)

:welcome:
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pwrd by tungsten
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by pwrd by tungsten »

1Dad2Scouts wrote:I have no speed secrets to share with the competition (4th place in den for my 2 boys), I do have tips on painting and building a better looking car. I'm a car painter by trade and a model builder for a hobby. When we got home from the weigh-in and tech night I told my wife I'd never seen so many "ugly cars". She reminded me that not every parent has 30 years of painting experience or nearly a lifetime of model building skills under their belts and that no other father she knew of had a paint booth in their basement!
After our Derby a few of the Scouts and their fathers asked about the "cool paint". My reply was next year come Derby time contact me and we'll set up a time to come over and use the stuff in my basement. Maybe I can trade paint tips for speed tips!!

Post away on the paint tips. A step by step guide would be great. Ask any speed questions... :D
W Racing!!!!
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by doct1010 »

Stan Pope wrote: When so involved, do you
1. Change the car yourself with no explanation,
2. Change the car yourself with explanation, or
3. Explain the changes while the owner makes the changes?

What are the teaching/sharing considerations for each alternative?
We supplied information and hands on demonstration at workshops. Answers to questions ad nauseum. Three page handout on process. Build time was cub/parent resposnibility. When I invited pack to my home workshop same rules applied, I'll show you how to use any tool (within reason), perform any task and our method for doing it but you must do your own work. (I broke my own rules once for a single mom, I cut a wedge, forstnered weight pocket and drilled axle holes for the cub., otherwise race day would have been a painted block with four badly assembled wheels and lots of tears. He finished, wheels, axles and alignment on his own with guidance from my son.)

On race day under pressure and constraints of time I have simply told a cub/parent team what needed to be done to correct a flaw or to bring car into compliance. At that point they are pretty much on their own.
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by *5 J's* »

Post away on the paint tips. A step by step guide would be great. Ask any speed questions...
Yes indeed. Painting is not my forte. I am good a wrinkling paint even using the same brand primer/paint/gloss coat - even using the reccemended cure times. This year I tried using the Pledge Floor Polish vice Clear Gloss on top of the paint. I was attempting to blow dust off the car and one of the finishes peeled off the car. I can only speculate it was the Pledge Floor Finish.

So - help us with the paint secrets - and I'm sure you'll get plenty of help with the speed secrets.
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Re: Do you hold back info locally?

Post by Pinewood Daddy »

*5 J's* wrote:Painting is not my forte. I am good a wrinkling paint even using the same brand primer/paint/gloss coat - even using the recommended cure times.
I have a similar talent. Even using the same primer and paint on 2 different cars, the finish may crinkle on one of them!!!
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