Is there a cost to victory? You bet!

[Duane]

Choosing the tournament over the car race was clearly the right call; your son has a far greater commitment to that team than to his den. His absence from the tournament would harm his teammates, whereas his absence from the derby only affects himself and you. You can both be proud of making that hard choice.

Perhaps your son can run his car at the district race anyhow, despite not running and winning at the pack level?
Perhaps some other pack in your district has not held its races yet, and would allow your son to compete in their race?

Besides the negative reasons you imply about the race leader's decision, here's some other possibilities...

In our local pack, it is encouraged that checkin and race-time repairs be done by the boy and not the parent, so that the boy feels responsible for the car regardless of how much was done by the parent. If it become common for families to race cars in abstentia, it could more easily turn into a mostly-parent race with the boy being merely a proxy and car carrier.

The main point of the derby activity is to promote the boys' excitement about being part of this group called scouting, and doing things together as a structured group rather than just as individuals. The competition and winning/losing is secondary.

Last year, your son won over all other cars but was not present. Everyone there likely knew that, and felt disappointed and somewhat irked. They could think, your son is some kind of hotshot who doesn't value his pack friends and pack membership as much as his outside sport activity. And did that while bending a rule or group assumption about how that day is run. They could feel rejected by your son, and not want to see it happen again. The derby leader could be feeling those things himself, or could just be sensitive to others feeling that way and using his power to prevent it. (I think it was a gross over reaction and maybe just jealosy.)

I wonder if it would have been different, if your boy did all the requesting himself, and if he promised them that this year's car would NOT be fastest?

[FatSebastian]

But couldn't they just as well give their presentation at the next group meeting as to how they built their car?

If a racer doesn't show up for the race, why should there be an expectation that (s)he would show up for the next meeting?

Seriously though, program meetings are highly topical with no overlap, as they are are organized and led by different volunteer instructors. Participants may pick and choose the topics in which they are interested. The audience at the race meeting(s) are obviously interested in that specific project. The next meeting involves a completely different project with a potentially different audience.

Hey, I thought you weren't trying to start a debate!

[psycaz]

But couldn't they just as well give their presentation at the next group meeting as to how they built their car?

If a racer doesn't show up for the race, why should there be an expectation that (s)he would show up for the next meeting?

Seriously though, program meetings are highly topical with no overlap, as they are are organized and led by different volunteer instructors. Participants may pick and choose the topics in which they are interested. The audience at the race meeting(s) are obviously interested in that specific project. The next meeting involves a completely different project with a potentially different audience.

Hey, I thought you weren't trying to start a debate!

That is why I am going to stop now.

To the OP, I hope you find a way to work it all out.

[FatSebastian]

Last year, your son won over all other cars but was not present...

According to H20, his son was present last year. Because there was some uncertainty about his ability to participate, a precedent ruling was made at that time to allow proxy racing, since the Pack's rules were silent on this issue. Facing the same type of conflict this year, that precedent ruling apparently changed, yet the new requirement of "scout presence" has never been reflected in the Pack's written rules. (Or so was my understanding...)

[Darin McGrew]

FWIW, we don't have a "must be present to race" rule, and over the years, we have had cars race when the owner was unable to attend the derby. It's a bit anticlimactic when one of the winners isn't there to receive an award, but the reason for the derby is the adult-child interaction during the construction of the car, not the race itself.

However, it's ultimately the rules (written and unwritten) of your derby that matter. If your derby enforces a "four on the floor" rule or a "must use original slots" rule, then it won't do you any good to argue that our derby doesn't. The "must be present to race" rule is no different.

Putting on my "rules lawyer" hat, if you want to argue the case, then I think the best point is that the "must be present to race" rule doesn't appear in the written rules. But it sounds like you've already taken the case almost as far as you can.

[H20]

I knew it would get confusing.

1 - My son was at the race last year.

1A. There was a chance we would not be there, and received an OK to have the car checked in by someone else. Thus a precedent was set, even though it was not used.

2 - Awards and medals are not awarded at the race. There was a problem with everyone sticking around, so they present awards at the pack meeting following the race, usually 3 - 4 weeks later. So the ending is pretty anticlimactic anyway. It just kind of stops and the winner is announced.

[H20]

I can argue both sides of the scout being present for the race.

At the end of the day, the pack should make a decision on what they think is right or wrong and make a rule for it stating their stance. This is no different than any other rule they choose.

I spoke with my son last night and laid out several options.

1 - Change packs and see if we can race there.

2 - Change packs and race districts regardless of #1

3 - Stay in the pack and race districts

4 - Talk to the COR and continue the fight to race in the pack

5 - Leave scouts all together and forget about the race. I also told him it was his interest but I would not allow him to leave scouts until he finished his bear rank. He started the journey, he would reach that goal. After that he could do whatever he wanted.

He choose #1 and #2 and asked if I thought any of this pack would be at districts. I told him I knew a couple would. He smiled and said "then I'm going to really polish those axles and wheels!" He agreed there was no use arguing anymore and if they didn't want him there, we would find someplace else.

[john4840]

He choose #1 and #2 and asked if I thought any of this pack would be at districts. I told him I knew a couple would. He smiled and said "then I'm going to really polish those axles and wheels!" He agreed there was no use arguing anymore and if they didn't want him there, we would find someplace else.

This sounds like a good option you and your son to get away from the situation and make it fun for your son again.

John

[Scubersteve]

I think he made the right choice, and so did you by making it his choice to make.

[Curse You Red Baron!]

H20, there might be another wrinkle in this (one I wished I had known about before the fact.) Our district allows any cub or family member to register a car in the district race REGARDLESS of whether they may have raced in a Pack PWD. Any scout with a tumble-down old bucket of non-lubed bolts he put together can enter and compete with all the smokin' fast cars that won their local races. As far as I'm aware, the only limitations are the usual build limitations. Nobody is aware of this so nobody does it, but I could and should have done it two years ago when my oldest son's car won the open class and was not sent to district. Pack policy is that the fastest open class goes to district also, and the District expects this, so it should have gone, but the race organizers did not know the policy . I happened to find out the following year when my son again won the open class, but to my surprise, was sent to districts, at which I talked to a friendly district organizer, and we happened to spend a few minutes on this topic.

Now, I think you've already had some district interaction that may spoil the milk, so to speak, not sure, but i thought I'd mention this in case it helps.

[FatSebastian]

Our district allows any cub or family member to register a car in the district race REGARDLESS of whether they may have raced in a Pack PWD.

I was thinking that H2O's option 2 may have been addressing this situation, and wonder if such an admission policy may be more common that not. Certainly it does well to cover situations where a boy wants to build a car but his Pack doesn't have a (qualifying) race. (Yes, some Packs do not have a derby! )

Nobody is aware of this so nobody does it...

In practice, if a car is not one of the fastest in its own Pack, then odds are against it doing well at the district-wide race. So there may less motivation to promote open admission, and also less incentive for the owner of a "tumble-down old bucket of non-lubed bolts" that understands the open admission policy to participate at the District level? (Plus, a poorly built car may be evidence that the family may not be very much interested in PWD to want to participate at the District race.)

[wildtrk]

This is the part I hate about Scouting....the politics of it all. In the past 6 years I have been the Committee Chair for the area Scout Troop and I am currently a Bear Den leader (was Wolf leader last year) in our Cub Pack. I have seen plenty of situations such as this, both out in the open and behind closed doors. And when the Scout becomes a pawn in a chess match played with adults that have hidden agendas that is something that just absolutely twists my knickers into a very tight ball. As Committee Chair I arbitrated my fair share of disagreements between parents and leadership over some of the most petty things that shouldn't have even been brought up, to an extremely serious incident at summer camp that concerned the safety of multiple Scouts. I have always tried to work problems out with the singular objective of trying to do what's in the best interest of the Scout. Rules can and should be enforced, but we are not building nuclear toasters here, we are building men and future leaders and there are no hard and fast rules in doing that.

Just my $.02

[DerbyMom0918]

I find it interesting ....

In our pack race, there was a boy who couldn't be there due to being out of town on a family trip. So, the boy's uncle checked the car in and the boy's cousin (same pack, different rank) raced his car during the Bear race and then raced his own during the Webelo 1 race.

There was no problem with it.

[kevinrevin]

Just curious about something a couple of folks posted about the Scout racing his car. If he is not there, how can "he" race it?

If he isn't placing the car on the track himself, then someone else is doing the racing, and he is one of the spectators.

[Darin McGrew]

Just curious about something a couple of folks posted about the Scout racing his car. If he is not there, how can "he" race it?

If he isn't placing the car on the track himself, then someone else is doing the racing, and he is one of the spectators.

Not all derbies have the car owners stage the cars at the starting gate. In our derby, all cars are staged by a neutral adult volunteer. The car owners sit in designated seats at the finish line, retrieve their cars after the race, and return the cars to the pit crew. If the car's owner isn't available (e.g., unable to attend or busy staffing the derby), then someone else does that, but the car still races.