Help for a newbie

[rderby]

Hi everyone.....this is my son's first pinewood derby (he is a cub scout) our race is coming up and I just got my kit from the pack and to say I am overwhelmed is an understatment! My hubby is no help with this kind of stuff so I am on my own looking on the internet for ideas. My brother in law offered to help us cut out the design (but he helped us with the rocket derby and was sure he knew what he was doing and we failed miserably)....I printed out all kind of ideas to help us but I am really lost. My son wants a camaro...and I figured I would try the 3 wheel touching thing (our rules don't say anything about that) and we can't "drill bevel or round the wheels" but that's really it... he really wants to do well and I feel bad that I have no idea how to do these kinds of things......any pointers anyone has for us we would be very thankful!!

Thanks!

[FatSebastian]

rderby!

I am really lost... he really wants to do well and I feel bad that I have no idea how to do these kinds of things

For those quite fresh to Pinewood Derby, I suggest buying a book on building Pinewood Derby cars, such as Pinewood Derby Speed Secrets: Design and Build the Ultimate Car by David Meade, as a single source to orient one's self. This book is endorsed by BSA and is often stocked at your local scout supply shop or where derby supplies are sold, as well as being available mail order. Stan Pope, a powerhouse contributor to this forum, also has an "eBook".

(Meade's book isn't perfect, but that's what Derby Talk is for, and some books you might want to avoid.)

[rderby]

Thank you....I am on my way to the scout store now to buy anothe kit in case we mess up the first one ...so I will check!

[FatSebastian]

I suggest buying a book on building Pinewood Derby cars

Also, Troy Thorne's new book is another resource that is especially aimed at kids and has gotten good reviews (although I have not had the chance to review it personally yet).

[Speedster]

This has got to be an emergency! It's getting late. A few questions.
Is there an experienced person in your Pack that can help you start to finish?
When is your Derby?
Is Graphite legal?
Do you have access to a drill?
A Drill Press?
An accurate scale that will weigh in grams?
I would forget the Camaro for this year and build a simple wedge shape car so he can race.
I wouldn't pursue a 3 wheeler because of time. You might end up with one naturally.
I can send you some weights and graphite and a picture of a wedge car and where the car should balance. No charge.
I suspect time is of the essence in this case. If it looks like this young man is not going to be able to race, email me. Surely something can be done.
Cheers
Bill

[Shawn Stebleton]

Welcome to the board!

I'm relatively new here, too, although I browsed it for awhile before joining. I agree with the Meade book comment made by FS. I have a copy and have used it with my sons.

What do your rules state? That's always the first question. If you could post them or a link to them, that would be very helpful.

Are you required to use the slots in the block?
If so, do they have to remain in the original locations?
If not, then you can cut off some wood (5/16") from the back and glue it to the front. I like to glue a craft stick (tongue depressor) instead due to its strength and durability compared to the pine.

If you must use the original slots in the original locations, use the slot closer to an end as the back slot.

Does the wheelbase need to remain unchanged from the original?

It sound like you can have one wheel raised. Good. The Pro Body Tool has an alternate hole for drilling one of the front axle holes raised (assuming a slope-to-flat track).

If you feel adventurous, it doesn't take much more to set it up for rail-riding. I'll have to find where on this board is the best topic for explaining that, as I can't do it justice.


What kind of tools do you have?

Also, how much time do you have before the race? That may determine how much you can do in limited time.

If possible buy one or two spare car kits at the scout shop. You will get extra everything that way. Try out things on "your' car and have your son practice on it, too, then have him do the same thing on "his" car. Don't worry about "your" car getting messed up a bit. Your son will benefit tremendously by doing it with your guidance and will end up with a car that looks better than yours. That is an immediate observation of "I'm doing better with practice."

Good luck!

Note: Edited to change 5/8" to 5/16".

[FatSebastian]

This has got to be an emergency! It's getting late. [...] I suspect time is of the essence in this case.

rderby said "I just got my kit from the pack." If everyone else were in that situation, then her son would be no more disadvantaged by time than the rest of the Pack.

I figured I would try the 3 wheel touching thing (our rules don't say anything about that)

I wouldn't pursue a 3 wheeler because of time.

We once made a "3-wheeler" in less than two minutes before a race by just bending an axle. I agree with Shawn that three wheels touching would be good.

[Speedster]

I agree, 3 wheels touching would be excellent. I'm trying to picture what this lady might be going through by what she originally said. If she lives in an apartment, has no tools, never used tools, is experiencing the 1st year in the pinewood derby, has no knowledge of how to build a car, then I fear she is at a great disadvantage compared to me and I'm sure many others. While you and I can probably build a competitive car in a couple of hours, I doubt that is this lady's case. I was trying to picture the worst case possible and felt this was not the time to be concerned about running a 3 wheeler. A 3 wheeler might be devastating to this scout. If the wheel is raised to high he might not stay on the track. I hope there is an experienced person in the Pack that will give this lady and her son assistance. If she doesn't need my help, that's fine. If she does, I'm here.
Cheers
Bill

[Speedster]

Shawn, I have a question.
The maximum I can cut off the back of the car and move to the front is approximately 5/16". Anything more than that I start to pass the back of the wheel. I then move the 5/16" to the front to take advantage of the "Front End Extension" effect and the higher velocity. My car still measures 7" in length but I have more sticking out the front where I want it to be. Would you please explain the 5/8" and the stick? Thank you.
Cheers,
Bill

[FatSebastian]

I'm trying to picture what this lady might be going through by what she originally said.

From what was said: it is their first derby. They just got the kit and are getting started. She is married and her family has access to woodworking tools (via her brother-in-law). Her family also has local access to supplies (a scout shop is nearby) and she is already getting spare parts. This is evidence that they are motivated and have done significant research already (e.g., they are already aware of lifting one of the front wheels). She seems to know their local rules well enough to quote and apply them. Yet she is overwhelmed by the amount of information gleaned through personal research via the internet, and thereby seeks construction guidance through "ideas" and "pointers".

I think they are doing great thus far!

Would you please explain the 5/8"

I would presume 5/16" was meant and it was just a typo?

[rderby]

Thank you all for your replies!

This has got to be an emergency! It's getting late. A few questions.
Is there an experienced person in your Pack that can help you start to finish?
When is your Derby?
Is Graphite legal?
Do you have access to a drill?
A Drill Press?
An accurate scale that will weigh in grams?
I would forget the Camaro for this year and build a simple wedge shape car so he can race.
I wouldn't pursue a 3 wheeler because of time. You might end up with one naturally.
I can send you some weights and graphite and a picture of a wedge car and where the car should balance. No charge.
I suspect time is of the essence in this case. If it looks like this young man is not going to be able to race, email me. Surely something can be done.
Cheers
Bill

The derby is in two weeks so I have a little time ?
There is nothing said about graphite no being legal
I have access to a drill and drill press (my brother in law)
The scale may be an issue but if I can find one to buy I will we'll need it the next few years

[rderby]

I agree, 3 wheels touching would be excellent. I'm trying to picture what this lady might be going through by what she originally said. If she lives in an apartment, has no tools, never used tools, is experiencing the 1st year in the pinewood derby, has no knowledge of how to build a car, then I fear she is at a great disadvantage compared to me and I'm sure many others. While you and I can probably build a competitive car in a couple of hours, I doubt that is this lady's case. I was trying to picture the worst case possible and felt this was not the time to be concerned about running a 3 wheeler. A 3 wheeler might be devastating to this scout. If the wheel is raised to high he might not stay on the track. I hope there is an experienced person in the Pack that will give this lady and her son assistance. If she doesn't need my help, that's fine. If she does, I'm here.
Cheers
Bill

I appreciate your help and the info you have given me! Thank you very much! My brother in law is very handy....and I have been researching to give him tips to help us....I have a drill and such but can't use a saw or anything like that....

I went to the scout store and picked up the book, another car and a plastic alignment thing and they are calling me tomorrow when they get more wheels in (I read somewhere that we should have extra to try find the ones that are the same)

[FatSebastian]

The scale may be an issue but if I can find one to buy I will we'll need it the next few years

An accurate scale is a worthwhile yet relatively inexpensive investment. You could pick up a nice digital scale at your local Harbor Freight today for about $11 with a coupon.

[edit: tried fixing coupon link]

[rderby]

Welcome to the board!

I'm relatively new here, too, although I browsed it for awhile before joining. I agree with the Meade book comment made by FS. I have a copy and have used it with my sons.

What do your rules state? That's always the first question. If you could post them or a link to them, that would be very helpful.

Are you required to use the slots in the block?
If so, do they have to remain in the original locations?
If not, then you can cut off some wood (5/8") from the back and glue it to the front. I like to glue a craft stick (tongue depressor) instead due to its strength and durability compared to the pine.

If you must use the original slots in the original locations, use the slot closer to an end as the back slot.

Does the wheelbase need to remain unchanged from the original?

It sound like you can have one wheel raised. Good. The Pro Body Tool has an alternate hole for drilling one of the front axle holes raised (assuming a slope-to-flat track).

If you feel adventurous, it doesn't take much more to set it up for rail-riding. I'll have to find where on this board is the best topic for explaining that, as I can't do it justice.


What kind of tools do you have?

Also, how much time do you have before the race? That may determine how much you can do in limited time.

If possible buy one or two spare car kits at the scout shop. You will get extra everything that way. Try out things on "your' car and have your son practice on it, too, then have him do the same thing on "his" car. Don't worry about "your" car getting messed up a bit. Your son will benefit tremendously by doing it with your guidance and will end up with a car that looks better than yours. That is an immediate observation of "I'm doing better with practice."

Good luck!

Thank you! the rules just give the measurements says we can't use wheel bearings washers or bushings, no springs, no motors, no loose material such as a lead shot (?), no moving parts. Only dry lubricants like teflon poweder or graphite can be used and that it. They don't say anything about the slots so I don't know about that.

My son is good at the sanding and painting .....he did a great job with the regatta boat but there is a lot of information out there and it gets very overwhelming to a non-handy girl!!

[rderby]

The scale may be an issue but if I can find one to buy I will we'll need it the next few years

An accurate scale is a worthwhile yet relatively inexpensive investment. You could pick up a nice digital scale at your local Harbor Freight today for about $11 with a coupon.

Thanks again...I do have one of those nearby so I will pick one up tonight!