Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

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Speedster
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Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by Speedster »

This is a continuation of the discussion on the topic "Wotamalo District Races 2/20/10 Results". hwsjr has stated he won a race by a few inches on a Best track and then lost by a few inches on what I will guess is a Freedom track, or Circular Arc. He then attributed everything to the design of the two tracks. Did either racer do anything to their cars between the Pack and District race? Did the scout who won at District build an entirely new car and perhaps change his COM? It would be educational if we knew exactly how the two cars were built and if anything was changed between the two races. If this particular race between the two cars was very close I can see how this could happen. Let's say hwsjr had a bit better wheel prep but a less aggressive COM. He won on the Best track. When he raced on the Freedom track the other scout picked up an advantage from the long arc and was now able to overcome the better wheel prep. If you win on a Best track does not Physics state you have to win, even more so, on a Freedom track, all other things being perfect? If it were necessary to have the COM 2" in front of the rear axle slot to keep a car on a Best track I can understand there would be some problems and a lot of wrecks. We know this is not true because the DT experts told us 3/4" COM will stay on a Best track. I know for a fact a 7/8" COM will run smoothly on a Best track. In our District you first race on a Best track and hope you have a fast enough elapsed time to qualify as one of the 8 who will move to the circular arc track. I see no obstacle in racing on the Best track and then racing on something else. I welcome it and hope none of the other racers we race ever heard of DT and are scared to death and move their COM out 2" in front of the rear axle slot. I welcome your comments and your personal experiences.
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sporty
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Re: Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by sporty »

Speedster,


The hardest thing for any of us. Is to try and factor in all the information, we have to read, before trying to give a good solid reply. Based on that information. Often the information is not enough to give the best possible reply.


There can be many reasons, why a car does better or worse on one track to another. Also unless I missed it. If the graphite also had lasted longer on one car or ran out sooner on the other. Also if it was re-applied, was it done in a way, that did not hamper the cars performance.


I have ran on best track and a freedom track, with the same cars. same set up and same ect. just fresh grahite.

The cars won and were fast and I seen no wiggle issues, between the two tracks.


I did not catch if both tracks were the same length. other than the arc is a tad different.

I ran a 3/8th balance point forward of the rear axle, with exstended wheel base on those cars. they also performed well on wooden track too.

I can ponder, many senerios and reasons, why the car did better or worse, on the two tracks.


1- did the other car, adjust or tune the car between the runs from one track to the other.
2- lube. was there re lubing , was it done right.
3- if there was not relubing, did oencar just have a better prep job. and less friction. it lasted longer.
4-one of the cars, the rail rider, got adjusted or out of wack, from the stop sections.
5-one of the cars had cleaner wheels than the other car, less grime and dirt.
6-better staging on one car over the other.
7-axle gap, got changed on one of the cars.
8-weight was moved on one of the cars.

With the info I have read.

I do not see the differance, being the weight placement from the two cars, if it was not changed.

track length if different, would be a factor.

But I would be inclined to look at the first (8) suggestions I have provided.

Sporty
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Re: Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by Speedster »

Sporty, I brought up the gentleman's issue about losing the race on the circular arc track because he blamed it solely on the shape of the track. I agree there are countless numbers of things that can affect a cars performance. This topic was started because there are some who feel having to race on a Best track works against them if they later have to race on a Freedom track. Since a car will run safely with an aggressive COM on a Best track (per DT experts) I don't see why a Best track would be a concern. Let's say you must use the original axle slots. Here is an actual situation. In our District the cars first race on a Best track for elapsed time and then the 8 fastest cars move to a Circular Arc track. Let's say you are building a car for this race. You have now built that car. You are notified a change has taken place and you will now be racing on 2 identical Freedom tracks. Would you change your car in any way?
You might have already answered this in your reply and if so, I apologize. Thank you.
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sporty
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Re: Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by sporty »

At the scout, level, No I would not change anything.
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Re: Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by resullivan »

This is not based on facts or testing, but IMO the more agressive the transition the more advantage a RR has.
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Re: Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by whodathunkit »

sporty wrote: I have ran on best track and a freedom track,.
I did not catch if both tracks were the same length. other than the arc is a tad different.
Sporty, could the running surface finsh between the two tracks be a major factor?
And dousen't the Best track have a longer running distance in the flat then the freedom track.
Here is what TAL, had to say at the bottom of this topic about the two tracks.
http://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5544" target="_blank
Just happend to be reading this older topic on the tracks and thought I'd share it on this topic.
What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?
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sporty
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Re: Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by sporty »

whodathunkit wrote:
sporty wrote: I have ran on best track and a freedom track,.
I did not catch if both tracks were the same length. other than the arc is a tad different.
Sporty, could the running surface finsh between the two tracks be a major factor?
And dousen't the Best track have a longer running distance in the flat then the freedom track.
Here is what TAL, had to say at the bottom of this topic about the two tracks.
http://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5544" target="_blank
Just happend to be reading this older topic on the tracks and thought I'd share it on this topic.

As scout level, I do not feel there is much of a differance between the two tracks to effect things greatly.

Now if you are are adult league level, there would be some differances. But so few people are at that level. who visit this forum or the 80% of most scouts are not.


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Re: Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by Speedster »

I think you can buy the number of lengths of track you want on the Best track. In our case, the track is quite short. The distance from the start pin to the timer is 29'. When we move to the other track, which I suspect is a Freedom track, the length is 40'. We easily beat a red car on the Best track when we were qualifying to see if we would be one of the top 8 to move on to the Freedom track. The Red car nearly overtook us in the last few inches on the Freedom track. Had the Freedom track been 6" longer we would have lost the race. This happened each time we came up against him. As it turned out we were able to hang on and ended up in 2nd place. What particular thing, or things, caused us to take the lead and then slow down more than that red car I will never know. Physics surely is Fun though, isn't it?
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sporty
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Re: Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by sporty »

Speedster wrote:I think you can buy the number of lengths of track you want on the Best track. In our case, the track is quite short. The distance from the start pin to the timer is 29'. When we move to the other track, which I suspect is a Freedom track, the length is 40'. We easily beat a red car on the Best track when we were qualifying to see if we would be one of the top 8 to move on to the Freedom track. The Red car nearly overtook us in the last few inches on the Freedom track. Had the Freedom track been 6" longer we would have lost the race. This happened each time we came up against him. As it turned out we were able to hang on and ended up in 2nd place. What particular thing, or things, caused us to take the lead and then slow down more than that red car I will never know. Physics surely is Fun though, isn't it?

Two things,


1- it was not a rail rider, and your car was touching the rail, on and off. slowing you down. this is likely why the other car did better on the longer track. Your car was slowing down more than his was as the race went one (meaning longer track was hurting you).

2- weight placement, the other car had more weight in the car in key areas.

3-better axle and bore prep.

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Re: Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by Speedster »

OK Sporty, here's some specs. Our car was a straight runner, Hodges wheels, axles and graphite. CM was 1" (mistake). We used lead (mistake) but we're still learning. I know we had too much wood but so did the other 7 cars. None of them looked like yours. I had a car I built for myself that could beat "our" car by 4" so I know it was not the fastest thing on the planet. Except for this one car, the other cars seemed to maintain their position from start to finish. It would seem this scout somehow built a car that would run a long, long, way but it simply wasn't fast enough in the critical area. He took 3rd place. A quick story. A very close friend of mine built a car many years ago that would consistently come from behind to win. For some reason all the other cars would get down the hill faster. He too ran Hodges wheels, axles and graphite. The crowd went wild when he was called to race. To this day we have no idea why that happened. The answer is to do what the champions do and hope for the best.
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sporty
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Re: Best Track-Friend, Foe or Neither

Post by sporty »

A car does noe get faster on the flat, it either has better alignment, better weight placement and prep.

The other cars are slowing down more, than that car. Its not magic. The car cou;d have just had a poor com also..


You'll get there this year or next year. You been doing the research and changing car design and learning.

Those who have the will and want, usually end up there (on top).

Sporty
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