Design Judging Article

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gpraceman
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Design Judging Article

Post by gpraceman » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:21 am



Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

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Re: Design Judging Article

Post by Speedster » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:21 pm

I agree it's a Good Read.
I'm curious to hear what others think about a car that is automatically disqualified at the start because it is "too good". Or, if you win 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place for speed you are automatically out of the Design category.
Truthfully, I like the District in our Erie council where every scout is invited to bring his car to the District race and display it. There is no voting and no trophies given for design. This gives every scout a chance to experience a District activity, make new friends, and see everyones car who has chosen to attend. That District not only saves on trophies but probably sells more refreshments than any other District. No, it is not my District.



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Re: Design Judging Article

Post by Vitamin K » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:28 pm

Maybe this is just my bias as one of the dads whose kids usually lead the pack in speed, but I think disqualifying speed winners from design judging is kind of wrongheaded.

Yes, I get that you want to distribute the trophies to more kids, but really, if the kids won, they won. Why penalize them artificially? What kind of message does it send? Don't be too good?



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Re: Design Judging Article

Post by gpraceman » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:45 pm

Speedster wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:21 pm
I'm curious to hear what others think about a car that is automatically disqualified at the start because it is "too good".
Unfortunately, I hear about that going on quite often. It ignores the fact that this should be a joint project of a child working with an adult, not the child alone. Besides, I have hosted many a workshop and seen some kids that can make incredible cars that you'd think an adult built. Their car would get disqualified at many races due to the misperception.
Speedster wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:21 pm
Truthfully, I like the District in our Erie council where every scout is invited to bring his car to the District race and display it. There is no voting and no trophies given for design. This gives every scout a chance to experience a District activity, make new friends, and see everyones car who has chosen to attend. That District not only saves on trophies but probably sells more refreshments than any other District. No, it is not my District.
Personally, I think that sucks, not to have awards for design. Speed is only one aspect of the race. To ignore design is to stifle creativity and basically says that design doesn't matter at all. Not everyone can (or wants to) make a fast car but they can make a really cool looking one. I'd rather get them at the race instead of them staying at home.
Vitamin K wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:28 pm
Maybe this is just my bias as one of the dads whose kids usually lead the pack in speed, but I think disqualifying speed winners from design judging is kind of wrongheaded.

Yes, I get that you want to distribute the trophies to more kids, but really, if the kids won, they won. Why penalize them artificially? What kind of message does it send? Don't be too good?
Personally, I have no issue with that, because as a race coordinator, I want max participation for future races. If a few racers haul in most of the trophies, that can discourage other racers from even wanting to participate. I can understand the point of view of a parent, but as a race coordinator, to me that is a secondary consideration.
Speedster wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:21 pm
Or, if you win 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place for speed you are automatically out of the Design category.
We have done a variation of that. If the racer is in the top design and top speed lists, we ask the racer which award they would prefer. We've actually had racers go for a lower design trophy over a higher speed trophy, since they had already won higher speed awards in the past.


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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.

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Re: Design Judging Article

Post by Speedster » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:43 pm

The Commodore Perry District is never going to get rid of the Design category and I only brought it up once. The leaders were complaining about losing so much money on the District Race I simply offered a suggestion. They weren't impressed with my suggestion and they've never complained about losing money again. This happened long ago. A little humor. I suspect you will all enjoy hearing no one ever asks me to be a Judge.



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Re: Design Judging Article

Post by Vitamin K » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:35 pm

I would hate to see design judging go away.

I sort of like the compromise where a winner of both categories can choose which he wants to win.

I think Scrollsawer(?) had a kid who REALLY wanted to win the design category, but his car was just a little too slippery and he won speed instead. :D



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Re: Design Judging Article

Post by Darin McGrew » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:05 pm

gpraceman wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:45 pm
Speedster wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:21 pm
I'm curious to hear what others think about a car that is automatically disqualified at the start because it is "too good".
Unfortunately, I hear about that going on quite often. It ignores the fact that this should be a joint project of a child working with an adult, not the child alone. Besides, I have hosted many a workshop and seen some kids that can make incredible cars that you'd think an adult built. Their car would get disqualified at many races due to the misperception.
Yep. When I've been involved in coordinating the design judging, I've tried to emphasize both of these points to the judges.
gpraceman wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:45 pm
To ignore design is to stifle creativity and basically says that design doesn't matter at all. Not everyone can (or wants to) make a fast car but they can make a really cool looking one. I'd rather get them at the race instead of them staying at home.
Yep. I've seen a number of kids get really excited about the design of the car, who really couldn't have cared less about speed. Incorporating both speed and design awards broadens the appeal of the derby.
gpraceman wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:45 pm
Vitamin K wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:28 pm
Maybe this is just my bias as one of the dads whose kids usually lead the pack in speed, but I think disqualifying speed winners from design judging is kind of wrongheaded.

Yes, I get that you want to distribute the trophies to more kids, but really, if the kids won, they won. Why penalize them artificially? What kind of message does it send? Don't be too good?
Personally, I have no issue with that, because as a race coordinator, I want max participation for future races. If a few racers haul in most of the trophies, that can discourage other racers from even wanting to participate. I can understand the point of view of a parent, but as a race coordinator, to me that is a secondary consideration.
As a race coordinator, I'd rather just present more awards if the rare "double dipping" means that not enough kids get awards. I don't like seeing design awards turned into consolation prizes by making only the losers of the race eligible for design awards.
gpraceman wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:45 pm
Speedster wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:21 pm
Or, if you win 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place for speed you are automatically out of the Design category.
We have done a variation of that. If the racer is in the top design and top speed lists, we ask the racer which award they would prefer. We've actually had racers go for a lower design trophy over a higher speed trophy, since they had already won higher speed awards in the past.
That's at least better than turning design awards into consolation prizes. I've known a number of kids who would have preferred any design award over any speed award. And vice versa, of course, but usually those kids don't invest enough time into their cars' design to win an award.


Other thoughts:

We also have our design judging between check-in and the race, but we hold check-in on a different night from the race, so we actually have a couple days to coordinate judging.

And we used to have multiple categories, with the judges assigning points to each car for each design category. But we ended up switching to a simple system where each judge ranks their favorite n cars in order. The judges were essentially doing that anyway, and then making sure the totals for their favorite cars put them in that order.

And we've created separate "automobile design" and "unusual design" categories. When we've had only one category per age group, the automobile designs really don't stand much of a chance against the unusual designs, no matter how well-crafted the automobile designs are.



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Re: Design Judging Article

Post by whodathunkit » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:45 am

gpraceman wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:21 am
A good read.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/ ... r-judging/
It's to bad that pack's can submit there best of show winner's .. to a page set aside in the magazine.. and or magazines.
Or in the local new's paper.
That in it's self would be a good award as well.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

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