Eligibility
Re: Eligibility
A rule against Ebay cars seems like an unenforceable rule. How can you really know where the car came from? If the car is legal in all other respects, what are you going to do? Accuse the dad/scout team of having bought the car? That sounds like a great way to create a really ugly situation. Why have rules that can't be enforced?
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gpraceman
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Re: Eligibility
If rules say nothing about a racer having a hand in constructing the car that they enter, then no one should complain if someone buys an eBay car and races it. But people WILL complain because with many races put on by various organizations, they have an unwritten expectation that the racer put in effort that was age appropriate in building the car (and rightfully so). So why leave it as an unwritten expectation?wardrocks wrote:A rule against Ebay cars seems like an unenforceable rule. How can you really know where the car came from? If the car is legal in all other respects, what are you going to do? Accuse the dad/scout team of having bought the car? That sounds like a great way to create a really ugly situation. Why have rules that can't be enforced?
Another reason is that those that basically "don't know better" would not likely buy a pre-built car if it was specifically against the rules. There are some well meaning folk that think they are helping out a kid if they hand them a finished car (single mom scenario, crying kid that never won scenario, etc.). Maybe this would deter them.
I am not advocating accusing people of buying eBay cars (or pre-built cars from other sources for that matter), since that is only likely to end up with some false acusations flying around. I just think you have to have something written down as to what is expected. You don't have to call it a "rule", but the expectation should be clearly communicated, in written and oral form.
Of course no "rule" or "expectation" will deter those bent on winning at all costs, but maybe we can put a stop to the misguided efforts of some.
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8
Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
Romans 5:8
Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
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Jungle Jim
- Master Pine Head
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Re: Eligibility
Well putgpraceman wrote: If rules say nothing about a racer having a hand in constructing the car that they enter, then no one should complain if someone buys an eBay car and races it. But people WILL complain because with many races put on by various organizations, they have an unwritten expectation that the racer put in effort that was age appropriate in building the car (and rightfully so). So why leave it as an unwritten expectation?
Another reason is that those that basically "don't know better" would not likely buy a pre-built car if it was specifically against the rules. There are some well meaning folk that think they are helping out a kid if they hand them a finished car (single mom scenario, crying kid that never won scenario, etc.). Maybe this would deter them.
I am not advocating accusing people of buying eBay cars (or pre-built cars from other sources for that matter), since that is only likely to end up with some false acusations flying around. I just think you have to have something written down as to what is expected. You don't have to call it a "rule", but the expectation should be clearly communicated, in written and oral form.
Of course no "rule" or "expectation" will deter those bent on winning at all costs, but maybe we can put a stop to the misguided efforts of some.
Jungle Jim
Re: Eligibility
It would be almost impossible to prove a car is ebay. I mean, other than stressing the "scout built" theme, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
I can't image saying to someone "are you cheating, because I believe this car came from ebay!"
I have taken design ideas from ebay's so called experts and given them a try with my cars, but those cars of mine go in the Open Class, where indirectly, some of those same thoughts go toward my sons.
I've tried the open belly/guts of the car with not much improvement over my other designs, but there again, maybe it was my craftmensship that failed. But had it tested out and I raced it, or my son would have said, "hey dad, I like that, can I build mine that way," then we would have given it a go. Then we would have showed up at the race to face people who would point the finger saying it's an ebay car.
Heck, two years ago, my 5-year-old wanted a firetruck, which we built with flashing lights on top at the front. A mom, unknowningly stated in front of me not knowing it was my son's, 'there's no way a kid built that!" My reply was, "Ask my son who's idea it was; who's idea it was to have the flashing lights (orginally used for real auto tire valve steam lights); and who painted it?" and he would have said his, which it was. And to top it off, had she taken the time to look closely at the fire truck, she would have seen little sanding and a rough blue paint job to boot, but again in this day and age, so many people jump to conclusions and give no one and slack unfortunately.
I have to say, leave the word "ebay" out of the rules and TRUST in your fellow scouts to do the right thing.
I can't image saying to someone "are you cheating, because I believe this car came from ebay!"
I have taken design ideas from ebay's so called experts and given them a try with my cars, but those cars of mine go in the Open Class, where indirectly, some of those same thoughts go toward my sons.
I've tried the open belly/guts of the car with not much improvement over my other designs, but there again, maybe it was my craftmensship that failed. But had it tested out and I raced it, or my son would have said, "hey dad, I like that, can I build mine that way," then we would have given it a go. Then we would have showed up at the race to face people who would point the finger saying it's an ebay car.
Heck, two years ago, my 5-year-old wanted a firetruck, which we built with flashing lights on top at the front. A mom, unknowningly stated in front of me not knowing it was my son's, 'there's no way a kid built that!" My reply was, "Ask my son who's idea it was; who's idea it was to have the flashing lights (orginally used for real auto tire valve steam lights); and who painted it?" and he would have said his, which it was. And to top it off, had she taken the time to look closely at the fire truck, she would have seen little sanding and a rough blue paint job to boot, but again in this day and age, so many people jump to conclusions and give no one and slack unfortunately.
I have to say, leave the word "ebay" out of the rules and TRUST in your fellow scouts to do the right thing.
Each day is a good race day!
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Darin McGrew
- Pine Head Legend
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Re: Eligibility
Yeah, I've run into that in our derbies.nosam116 wrote:Heck, two years ago, my 5-year-old wanted a firetruck, which we built with flashing lights on top at the front. A mom, unknowningly stated in front of me not knowing it was my son's, 'there's no way a kid built that!"
One boy bought a plastic model car kit and used parts of it to detail the car: the roof and windows, the "chrome" trim, etc. The body of his car was wood, carefully shaped and sanded to match up perfectly with the plastic parts he was using for details. Some adults thought he had just built a plastic model and attached it to the wooden block, and didn't appreciate the craftmanship he demonstrated.
Two boys always had beautiful cars. Some folks thought their dad built the cars for them, knowing he was a woodworker. One year, he built his own car, and in comparison, it was pretty clear that the boys had built their own cars.
A lot of what produces a beautiful design is creativity, time, and the motivation to invest creativity and time in the project. Adult skill levels aren't required, and a lot of kids have at least as much creativity and time as their parents. When the motivation is there too, kids can produce some amazing designs.
