Why do you conduct your derby?

General race coordinator discussions.
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Jthompson

Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by Jthompson »

We are in our first year of Pinewood, and I am interested in what other derby organizers have set up for their derby goals and how they have gone about achieving them or keeping the focus on the main goals.

I know this is an open ended and broad topic, but as I read through the threads, they tend to become very detailed. I would like to start with the highest level...why do you conduct your derby? Our committee has a lot of ideas but no clear cut vision. The first year will be simple, however, we are wrestling with basics:

* Do we want a small scale derby or fundraiser?
* How much teaching do we want to provide to parents and Scouts? Do we want more parent/child interaction independant from the workshop?
* Where do we place our emphasis on the event...design or speed or both or teamwork or none of the previous?
* Do we want a small scale event with less planning (only 36 boys in the Pack), or do we want to scale up as other local Packs have done?

How do you communicate your derby goals to your organizations, how do you implement your goals, and how do you maintain the focus throughout your events?
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Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by wcstormcrow »

Jthompson wrote: * Do we want a small scale derby or fundraiser?
* How much teaching do we want to provide to parents and Scouts? Do we want more parent/child interaction independant from the workshop?
* Where do we place our emphasis on the event...design or speed or both or teamwork or none of the previous?
* Do we want a small scale event with less planning (only 36 boys in the Pack), or do we want to scale up as other local Packs have done?
Some really good questions, but allow me to offer a peice of advice before I try to answer them. Always remember, KISMIF. Keep It Simple, Make it Fun.

Now, as to my take:
1. I'd stay away from viewing the Derby as a fundraiser. Sure, you want to cover your expenses. And being a first year event for you, you're sure to have a few costs this year and probably next year that you wouldn't anticipate. With our own Pack, we're mature enough that we charge enough for the food to cover those expenses, and we give away kits at our Holiday Pack meeting to make sure every boy has a chance to compete. If you have to raise funds, I'd focus on doing it through the food you offer, that way people can elect to particpate without affecting their ability to race a car.
2. Offer as much teaching as time permits. Some Derbies run very successfully without a great deal of intervention in this area. I see alot of posts here though that make me think other people have more experience in this area. I'd focus more on making sure you have a good set of rules and guidelines, freeing you to worry more about setting up the event.
3. Derbies focus on rewarding speed (principally). However, you can create a dozen certificates for 'Best Truck' or 'Shiniest Car' to help reward those that don't perform as strongly. We also offer a participant award in our Derbies, labelled 'YEAR Pinewood Derby' to give to everyone that enters.
4. I would suggest making the focus on your Pack only for the first year or two. Find out what works and what doesn't work. I can tell you that even after running it for 6 years for my Pack (and having heard stories of 6 years before that), we're still working on fine tuning the experience. If you want to add some variety in your first year, consider offering an 'Open Class', allowing parents and siblings the chance to race a car.

Hope this helps a bit. Oh, and as far as goals...for your first year your main goal needs to be to have fun and keep a level playing field for all racers. If you can meet both of those goals, you've accomplished alot.
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Darin McGrew
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Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by Darin McGrew »

Jthompson wrote:I would like to start with the highest level...why do you conduct your derby?
It's a great project for kids and adults to work together on. The kids learn a lot (both hands-on skills and life skills) in the process. Sometimes the adults do, too. And it's a lot of fun for everyone.
Jthompson wrote:* How much teaching do we want to provide to parents and Scouts? Do we want more parent/child interaction independant from the workshop?
How much teaching can you provide? This year, we're going to hold 3 Saturday morning workshops (2 hours each), plus 3 Wednesday night (club night) workshops (perhaps an hour or so each) and a Wednesday night registration (including weight adjustments and lubrication).

We don't try to have them do everything possible at the workshop. We focus on the basics: get the car built, use a drill press to pre-press the axle holes for good alignment, get all the cars up to 142g, and get all the axles polished and lubricated. There's plenty more that can be done, and those who are motivated can (and do) invest more time at home.
Jthompson wrote:* Where do we place our emphasis on the event...design or speed or both or teamwork or none of the previous?
We have design awards that are equivalent to the speed awards. Lately, the top design award and the top speed award have both been trophies, with medals for second place and lower in both speed and design. Some years, when the judges' voting was really close, we add a few honorable mention ribbons for design, but we try to keep the design awards just as significant as the speed awards.
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Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by PackMan »

Let me warn you this will be a long post, but I thought the more info. the better. I can appreciate your position since this is the first year I ran the Derby for our Pack.

Our pack is smaller than yours, right now at 24 after 5 boys "crossed over" this month. FYI, we allow the boys going on to Boy Scouts to participate in the Derby even though they're not technically part of the Pack anymore.

Our Derby runs late January and we give informational handouts advising of time, date, rules, etc. at the November Pack meeting-the 3rd Friday of the month. Rules are fairly loose because we want to encourage creativity but we do have some limits. National standards for width, length, weight, etc. In general, we try to make rules in such a way that people with access to sophisticated equipment like lathes, CNC machinary, etc. don't have an unfair advantage. For example, we don't permit drilling of tire sidewalls or narrowing/profiling of tire tread.

We don't use it as a fundraiser although in the past we did put out a donation jar to help minimize food costs. Last year we cut a deal with a small local college that they could use it a couple of times for campus promotions and they would store the track, let us use their facilities, and provide the food. The feedback I heard was that their students loved it and we saved the cost of renting a facility (@$150-200) and the food (@$200).

There has been some discussion that next year, if we don't continue with the college, each den will be assigned a food-type (dessert, salad, side dish, etc.) and the Pack will handle the main entree which is usually hot roast beef sandwiches, hot dogs, hamburgers, etc.

The Derby is seen in the Pack as the "big event" for the year. We usually get 60-75% participation. This year was close to 85%. Don't know if it was the college location or the fact that we allowed sibling/dad races this year after the scouts were done. We had about 6-7 entrants for that I think. Many boy/parent teams build more than one car so this was a natural for us.

The main goal promoted by the Pack is to have fun (which helps alittle with trying to teach them Sportsmanship), learn about using tools and the physics of racing, and providing an opportunity for the boys and their dads to have some "quality" time together. It's not like the old days when boys would go hunting and fishing with their dad alone or with close friends. And sports are so competitive these days that parents are usually relegated to the sidelines once they're past the "PeeWee" leagues. These opportunities are available less and less in urban/suburban areas so this is a good chance for them to interact closely.

I run clinics for the boys for 3-4 hours on 2 Saturdays 2-3 weeks before the race. We ensure parental participation and enhance safety by making it mandatory that at least one parent attend. We make sure everyone understands the basics such as axles perpendicular to the side of the body, smooth vs. bumpy tire tread, wheel placement, etc. We have a handout, with illustrations, for this and I go over it verbally. For the more esoteric subjects, I try to stimulate conversation by asking questions like "If gravity is pushing the weight (don't try to explain mass vs. weight), where could you put it where it will give more push/work the longest?: or "If a car's wheels aren't straight, what will happen?". In essence, I try not to give them the answer but to make them see and think about the issues so they can try and figure it out on their own.

Our philosophy for the workshop is that the boys should do as much work on their own as they feel comfortable doing, except for the bandsaw. Only I or another experienced adult use this. Otherwise the boys can use any of the power tools (under direct adult supervision) if they want although for stationary sander we insist on a "adult hands over boys hands"
approach.

We try to have as many awards as possible. 1st-3rd places for each den and 1st-4th for the pack. We have a "Best Design" trophy as well that is determined by the scouts voting for it. We also have small display trophies for every entrant so every boy has a trophy to display his car (These only run $4/ea.). Next year thinking of some certificates for other catagories. They're cheap and, hopefully, almost every boy will go home with something.

In general, we try to promote/stres as much child/parent interaction as possible although for extraordinary circumstances we will step in to help. One boy's dad is undergoing cancer treatment and not up to participating. Another single parent mom is clueless about anything mechanical.

Most of the boys seem to automatically gear their efforts for speed although every year one or two seem to slant their entry for design. Last year we had a pretty good looking tractor trailer combo.

I hope this offers you insight and help. Sorry the post is so long.
Jthompson

Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by Jthompson »

Packman,

The middle of your reply was exactly what I was looking for. I wanted to know what the underlying themes were for your derby. It seems to me that we need to estasblish well defined goals at the highest level and then all activities drive toward achieving those goals.

That is what I was hoping to find out. I am curious how other packs encourage parent-parent interaction. Some of this naturally occurs at the workshop and in committees. I was hoping to hear a little more about that aspect of the derby and what other Packs were doing to encourage thisand to encourage more active involvement from all parents...not just the few who are always willing to lead.
Last edited by Jthompson on Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by Stephen's Dad »

JT,

You have forced me into the position of self examination which I thank you for.

To be brutally honest, our Pack today conducts the PWD mostly because it has become a time honored tradition that ALL (100%) of our Boys look forward to every year. Personally I cannot imagine Cub Scouts without Derbies. So I have become jaded & take for granted that everyone must feel the same way. At the risk of sounding trite, the PWD is now a habit.

If I had to sell the idea of holding a PWD to the Pack today for the very first time I would first look to the founders message & try to get inside his head.
Don Murphy – “I felt for a long time that Cub Scouts needed to participate in an active challenging game to promote good sportsmanship. Something the whole family would be involved in with their children.” May 14, 2004
And some years ago:
"I wanted to devise a wholesome, constructive activity that would foster a closer father-son relationship and promote craftsmanship and good sportsmanship through competition."
Don Murphy,
Founder of the Pinewood Derby in 1953
Manhattan Beach, CA Cub Scout Pack 280C

We may note that Mr. Murphy has adjusted his message a little bit to accomadate the changing times but his original goals have remained unchanged.

This message was enough for the National level BSA to wholly endorse the PWD for the betterment of the Cub Scouting program. Some reasons:

Fun
Educational
Cost Effective (No one really needs a $1300 track & timer)
Sportsmanship
Family (all the reasons mentioned above)
Teamwork (Dens can form Points Teams)

On the very rare occasion that a PWD causes ill feelings it is because parents get too competitive. You will find this in all levels of organized athletics too.

Initial starup costs can be very low. A small starter track can be built with easily obtained materials for about $100. A track like this won't dazzle the jaded eyes of this forum. But no one can deny that the laughs & lessons learned can be matched for that same investment in time & money elsewhere.

Take 20 kids to a movie for $100? Nope
A theme or amusement park? Guess again.

How's about having the Boys all get together to build a track? There must be a father in your Pack that is a skilled tradesperson. No? How about your Charter Org Rep? They know someone who can help. Be resourceful.

Start small JT. Leave the skilled speed related building techniques for another season. No matter how fast the first place finisher is, there is still only one first place prize. In the first year you can award a simple $3.00 ribbon, a $12.00 left over eBay trophy or a veritable marble monument custom engraved for $50. The prize doesn't matter especially in your first Derby.

Don't lose sight of the most important goal. We're not building cars, tracks & trophy cases. We're building memories & Boy Scouts.

So there we have it. We're building Boy Scouts and we use the Pinewood Derby to teach them the skills & values needed to be Boy Scouts in a way that is also fun.

Stan says it better than anybody but let's let him speak for himself.
The man who stands tallest is the man who bends to help a child.
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Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by Cory »

Some of the high-level principles we used to follow:

1. The Stearns themes of "maximum participation" and "continuous involvement", at least 4 to 6 races for each car, spread somewhat evenly, lots of different opponents. Several ways to accomplish this -- Stearns charts, PPN charts, no-chart elim, etc....even if you are choosing winners by elapsed time, these are still good goals.

2. Take-aways for every boy. We would give them each a PWD patch, plus a design award. As an aside, there were no big trophies awarded, just ribbons and small medals for the speed competition winners. Every boy, no matter how fast his car was, could fit his prizes inside same the box he used to transport his car. Simply put, we emphasized building and competing, and not so much winning.

3. Informal workshops. We would never spoon-feed information or techniques to them, but it was provided on-demand to those that asked for it.

4. Minimal micro-managing of parental involvement. Each family's situation is different, and we never felt like it was our job to make one hundred different determinations (that's how many kids were in our Pack) of what was appropriate. We did make it very clear up-front that this was to be a "team effort", but that's all. Now if a parent came into a workshop without a son and started working on the car, yeah, we might ask a question or two, but mostly we left it to parents and kids to figure out on their own what PWD is all about.

5. Rules, car kits, schedules all distributed at the same time. Rules based on the District rules, which meant I had to start pestering those folks way back in October and November.

6. Lots of communication. Emails, printed documents, web pages. People communicate in different ways, we tried to cater to all of them.

7. Auditable race method. We now use software which displays each chart in its entirety, w/ results of each race, on the wall. Before that, we used transparencies and an overhead projector to do the same thing. The scoring shouldn't be a secret, instead it should be a glass house.
Jthompson

Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by Jthompson »

Stephen's Dad,

You hit just what I was looking for when you said " WE ARE BUILDING MEMORIES" !

This is the event that I remember most about Cub Scouts. Of all the things I did, I remember my first derby car the most. I carved it with a knife and spent hours sanding and painting it. My father helped and we spent time together planning and buiilding the car. Losing the race did not matter..I enjoyed building the car.

On another note, what I am finding out is that the workshops are really bringing the Pack together. We have had more interaction between fathers and between Scouts than at any event except campouts. Many of the dads had not met each other due to busy time Schedules. Mom's and Grandfathers are running drill presses. We are all helping a sponsered Scout.

Has anyone emphasized problem solving as a key theme?
Jthompson

Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by Jthompson »

Stephen's Dad,

A few more thoughts on this topic based on your reply.

I like your quoting the original intent of the derby. I want to break this down bit-by-bit and see what others are doing to promote the original vision of the derby.

1) How are organizers conveying the "challenge" of this game? I am getting comments this year from parents like this, " I never new this was so invloved". Building a car that can compete well is involved! It takes several hours. How is this promoted?

2) How do organizers and parents promote good sportsmanship? Its one thing to say that this is what the derby is about; its another to actually work toward this goal. How do you promote this? How do you know you have succeeded?

3) " Something the whole family" can get involved with...I like this idea. How are other organizers making sure the whole family is involved? Do wives feel left out? How about siblings?

4) "Foster closer father-son relationships". What is everyone doing to promote this concept.

Has anyone looked at the 12 core values of Cub Scouting as a foundation for the derby? For non-Scouts, I am listing these:

Citizenship
Compassion
Cooperation
Courage
Faith
Health and fitness
Honesty
Perserverence
Positive attitude
Resourcefullness
Respect
Responsibility

I am curious if core values have been thought of as part of organizers vision of a derby.

How do we reward those who have "done their best"? Maybe they did not have the resources that others had.
Last edited by Jthompson on Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by Stephen's Dad »

A well run Derby does speak to all of the 12 core values.

Citizenship (work with Family, sponsors & invite senior groups, etc to attend)
Compassion (someone will lose, demonstrate compassion)
Cooperation (workshops - idea sharing, tools, helping)
Courage (to accept the outcome of the event)
Faith (in yourself to accomplish with what God has gifted you with)
Health and fitness (shop safety)
Honesty (keep to rules)
Perserverence (finish that car & race it!)
Positive attitude (regardless of the challenges or outcome)
Resourcefullness (start with block of wood - finish with working racer)
Respect (other fellow Scouts/builders/racers & Leader/authority)
Responsibility (make a plan & work it through to completion)

These are just a few of the parallels we can find. Perhaps a nice side bar would be for Dens to each take a few of the values & tie them to the PWD. At a Pack gathering this can be assembled onto a sign board for later demonstration at the Derby.
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Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by PackMan »

Maybe here's a few ideas on your questions.
"1) How are organizers conveying the "challenge" of this game? I am getting comments this year from parents like this, " I never new this was so invloved". Building a car that can compete well is involved! It takes several hours. How is this promoted?"
We run articles on the Derby several months in advance in our monthly Pack newsletter. Part of the articles will point out problems that entrants need to solve in order to build a fast car (different ones each month). For bevity's sake we can't get into specific solutions in the newsletter. This is handled in two ways-at the workshops and during conversations answering questions generated by the newsletter.

We also touch on the subject during our November and December Pack meetings and even give out a few of the better websites URL's and suggest they give them a look if they want to understand what is required to build a fast/good looking car.
="2) How do organizers and parents promote good sportsmanship? Its one thing to say that this is what the derby is about; its another to actually work toward this goal. How do you promote this? How do you know you have succeeded? "
This is a tough one. You can't control what the parents say to their son(s) although I think most try to de-emphasize the competitive nature of the event. Every adult connected with the Pack (Leaders, Cubmaster, Chairman, etc.) tries to stress the Cub motto of "Do your best". It doesn't matter if you win or lose, but that you did the best job you could. We emphasize taking pride in doing a job well-done and building a great car, not winning. We also stress the process of learning and building, not the result.

We include the following as a section in our Derby instructions/rules. I'd give credit to the Calif. Troop if I could remember where I got it. I thought it was right on target.

Sportsmanship:
The first thing to remember about sportsmanship is that everyone's skills are a little different.
You may be good at something like singing or drawing, but not as good at something else like basketball or computers. Parents have different skill levels, too. This doesn't mean that you are a good person one time and not good another time. You can always be a good person, whether or not you have good car-building skills. Remember, you and your friends are individuals first and racers second. This idea is often called having respect for others.
The second thing to remember is to follow the rules. Without rules, there would be no Pinewood Derby. You will never know if you are really good at doing something unless you follow the rules. This is often called being honest.
The third thing to remember about good sportsmanship is that there are winners and losers in every competition. You accept this when you choose to compete. There may be times when you win and feel happy, and times when you lose and feel unhappy. Being a winner is easy, and losing is sometimes hard. If you win, you must not brag or gloat. If you lose, you must not feel jealous or bitter. To be a good sportsman, you must be able to say "I did my best" and be satisfied with the results.
Remember, the main “Purpose” of this event is to have FUN! If you have fun and help others to have fun, then we are all winners!


As to how do you know if you've succeeded, you'll hear it and see it at the Derby. Losers congratulating winners, boys cheering for each other. I won't say that everyone is a "happy camper" at the end of the races, but you do see and hear some heart-warming things if you pay attention.
="3) " Something the whole family" can get involved with...I like this idea. How are other organizers making sure the whole family is involved? Do wives feel left out? How about siblings?

4) "Foster closer father-son relationships". What is everyone doing to promote this concept. "
I don't think you have to do much here. The whole derby concept seems to naturally appeal to fathers and sons. The few moms involved were doing so more through necessity. And the whole family seems involved, at least at the Derby itself. If a Scout participates, his whole family shows up-grandparents included. I don't think it's realistic to have the whole family involved with the construction process. We do run races after the official Derby for siblings and parents who want to enter a car; just for fun, no trophies.
="How do we reward those who have "done their best"? Maybe they did not have the resources that others had."
We try to have as many awards as possible. And every boy gets a display stand for his car. Next year I think we'll have some certificates printed up for "shiniest car", "best paint job", etc. that will be awarded by the Derby Committee so we can try and spread some more around. [/i]
Jthompson

Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by Jthompson »

Thanks Pacman,

All very good ideas.

Has anyone put all these great concepts into Vision and Mission statements for the Derby? If so, I would like to here about them. Ultimately, this is where I want this thread to lead...I would like to come up with concise statements that we could use as our highest level guides.
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Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by BigSilver »

Sorry for the long post in advance,
This is our Packs kick off message and rules for the PWD. It is highly plagiarized and I have attempted to share as much of the speed secrets and resources available. I want to thank all who I list and plagiarize for their dedication to Scouting and sharing their hard earned knowledge.
:oops:
As for why, first it is fun, second it allows us to teach a number of values and skills, third we share in an experience that brings the whole pack together. : :D

Our Rules

Pinewood Derby Rules 2006

1. Always rule 1: Have Fun! As with all Cub Scout events, the first rule is to have fun!
2. Attendance: This is a Scouting event, so all participants and Leaders are expected to be in full Scout uniform at the race. Builders clinics and impound days will not require a uniform.
3. Kits: Only cars built from the “Official Grand Prix Pinewood Derby Kit” will be eligible for competition. Kits will be available at the January Pack meeting for $4.00 or available at the Council office on the East side of 10th Street West between Ave L and Ave M. Cars built previous years or purchased from someone are ineligible for competition. Please don’t waste your money on an E-bay car and expect it to win…..that’s not the point of Pinewood Derby racing.
4. Width: Maximum width of the car shall not exceed 2.75 +/- 0.010 (2-3/4) inches.
5. Length: Maximum length of the car shall not exceed 7.00 +/- 0.010 inches
6. Weight: Maximum weight shall not exceed 5.00 ounces as determined at inspection. Weight can not be added or removed once the car has been inspected, registered, and impounded.
7. Height: Maximum height shall not exceed 2.75 +/- 0.010 (2-3/4) inches.
8. Clearance: Minimum ground clearance of 0.375 +/- 0.010 (3/8) inches is required.
9. Details: Details such as steering wheel, driver, lights, decals, painting, and interior details are permissible as long as these details do not exceed the maximum width, length, weight or height specifications listed in 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 above, are securely attached and do not interfere with another race entry.
10. Attachments: The car must be free-wheeling and gravity powered with no starting or acceleration devices.
11. Springs: The car shall not ride on any type of spring or suspension of any kind.
12. Bearings: Washers, bearings, and bushings of any kind including paper are prohibited.
13. Lubrication: The only lubrication allowed is Dry Graphite. This may be applied to the axles, wheel hubs and contact points between the wheels and car body. Graphite can only be applied prior to impound and immediately prior to the Grand Championship race.
14. Axles: Only the axles (nails or the “new” BSA axle kits) provided in the kit may be used. Chroming or special technical process may not be used to apply a smooth finish to the nail or axle kits. Removal of the flashing and burs through polishing is allowed and the nail heads may be coned and polished but the axles must remain identifiable as original BSA kit axles.
15. Eligibility: Only registered Tiger Cubs, Wolfs, Bears, and Webelows are eligible to compete. Only one entry per boy is allowed. Multiple entries made by same boy will result in disqualification of all his entries. Races will be run by class, Tigers, Wolfs, Bears, and Webelows will each compete and medals will be awarded for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place. The top four finishers from each class will then advance to the Grand Championship to compete for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place trophies. Each participant will receive a pinewood derby patch and certificate.
16. Responsibilities: It is the sole responsibility of each participant to pick up his car at the end of the race. The Pack Pinewood Derby Committee is not responsible for lost or damaged cars.
17. Wheels: Wheels must be of full width, as provided in the BSA kit. Light sanding and truing is allowed to remove seams and flashing per box rules as long as the wheels retain some side wall lettering. The wheel must retain its full width footprint and the wheel surface in contact with the track must remain flat and parallel to the axle. Wheels may not be tapered, concave, convex, or made substantially lighter. All four wheels and axles from the kit must be used.
18. Staging: Cars shall have a leading edge which is flat and parallel with the axles. The leading edge should be between 0.375 (3/8) and 0.75 (3/4) inches above the track. Cars that “ride up” on the staging pegs will be run backwards or disqualified at the judge’s discretion. An electronic finish line will be used, therefore, it is recommended that extreme needle nose (less than 0.5 (1/2) inch width) designs be avoided to ensure accurate operation of the sensors. Holes near the front of a car may also compromise use of the electronic timer and may require use of an opaque tape to allow the car to trip the timer. If tape is required to alter a car the car must be reweighed and not exceed the 5.00 oz limit.
19. Adjustments: Once a car is impounded, no one may alter the car, except to repair broken parts or to correct rule violations at the repair station. The boy and an adult are permitted to make a repair or correction together under the supervision of the race officials. All cars in the Grand Championship will be allowed to apply graphite to the axles immediately prior to the Grand Championship race at the repair station under the supervision of the race officials.
20. Open Class: An open class race for the glory will be held for siblings and parents of the registered Cub Scouts following the Grand Championship. No rules apply other than the cars can do no damage to the track or participants as determined by the race judges. Creativity and Cub Scout Humor are encouraged.
21. Sportsmanship: Objective of the Pinewood derby is to “Have lots of Fun!” Respect for others and being a good looser as well as a good winner is required in order to have the most fun. Unsportsmanlike conduct by any participant or spectator will be grounds for expulsion from the competition and /or race area. Make the most of the event and see what secrets you can learn to make your next car a winner.
Race Day: March 11th 7:00 to 1:00

Tiger Cubs 7:00 to 7:45 Wolfs 7:45 to 8:30 Bears 8:30 to 9:15 Webelows 9:15 to 10:00

Grand Championship Race 10:30 to 11:30 Open Class 11:30 to 12:30 Cleanup 12:30 to 1:00

SPECIAL NOTES TO ALL CONCERNED

Teamwork:
This project is a parent and son event, and is recommended as such by the National Boy Scouts of America. The Pinewood Derby Committee STRONGLY SUGGESTS that each parent work with their son using a hands on hands on tools approach. Most importantly we hope that the cars be built together to the best of the boy’s ability reflecting his idea of what his car should be this year. The Open Class race is for the parents to incorporate their vision of what their car should be, making it easier for all to realize their potential by doing their best together.
Sportsmanship:
Two things the Pinewood Derby requires each participant to learn are 1) the craft skills necessary to build a car, and 2) the rules that must be followed. Even more important, though, is how we act and behave while participating in the Pinewood Derby or any other group activity. This is called sportsmanship.
The first thing to remember about sportsmanship is that everyone's skills are a little different. You may be good at something like singing or drawing, but not as good at something else like basketball or computers. Parents have different skill levels, too. This doesn't mean that you are a good person one time and not good another time. You can always be a good person, whether or not you have good car-building skills. Remember, you and your friends are individuals first and racers second. This idea is often called having respect for others.
The second thing to remember is to follow the rules. Without rules, there would be no Pinewood Derby. You will never know if you are really good at doing something unless you follow the rules. This is often called being honest.
The third thing to remember about good sportsmanship is that there are winners and losers in every competition. You accept this when you choose to compete. There may be times when you win and feel happy, and times when you lose and feel unhappy. Being a winner is easy, and losing is sometimes hard. If you win, you must not brag or gloat. If you lose, you must not feel jealous or bitter. To be a good sportsman, you must be able to say "I did my best" and be satisfied with the results. You must also be able to appreciate and feel happy for someone else when they run a good race or build a neat car.
Important Dates to Remember:
January 25 - Derby kits will be distributed at the January Pack meeting
February 11 - Derby Clinic I, - Body Shop Wheels and Axles - 1:00 to 5:00 @
February 18 - Derby Clinic II, - Wheels and Axles and Weights 1:00 to 5:00 @
February 25 – Derby Clinic lll, - Paint Workshop 1:00 to 5:00@ Shannon’s home
March 4 - Inspection, Registration, and Impound 1:00 to 4:00 @ TBD
March 6 - Late Inspection, Registration, and Impound 5:30 to 7:30 @ TBD

March 11 - Pinewood Derby Day! At

Race Day: March 11th 7:00 to 1:00

Tiger Cubs 7:00 to 7:45 Wolfs 7:45 to 8:30 Bears 8:30 to 9:15 Webelows 9:15 to 10:00

Grand Championship 10:30 to 11:30 Open Class 11:30 to 12:30 Cleanup 12:30 to 1:00


Builders Clinics

Derby Clinics will be held from 1:00 to 5:00 pm on February 18th, 25th, and 26th at my home. I will have an assortment of shop tools available for supervised use. Parents must be present and supervising for their child to use the tools. The tools will consist of a drill press, a scroll saw, a belt sander, orbital sander and assorted hand tools. There will be no painting allowed at the first two clinics. Please have your son pick out a design for his car prior to the clinic and trace the design on the block of wood or bring a picture along to the clinic. Please purchase weights and bring them to the clinic for installation. The third clinic will require you to have sealed and sanded your car and it must have dried in order to paint it. Please bring the following materials to paint your car. 1) White for candy or silver for metallic or other color under coat spray paint. 2) Color of your choice spray paint for top coat. 3) Clear coat spray paint for final finish. 4) Masking tape. 5) Shoe box or news paper. If you have any questions please call me. We will be allowing the boys to “Do their Best” within their ability.


Come one come all to the Pack 164 Pinewood Derby!!!!!!!!
This Wednesday at the Pack meeting we will have car kits for sale at $4 per kit. The Pinewood derby will take place the 11th of March at XXXXX.

There will be three Builders Clinics at my home consisting of two body shop, wheels and axles clinics and a paint and finish clinic. You will need to purchase about 4 oz of weight to add to your cars at the first two clinics and you will need to bring your paint to the last clinic. Tools consisting of a scroll saw, drill press, belt sander, and hand sander will be provided allong with all the secrets for building and making your car go fast. No need to waist your hard earned money on the "How to go fast books", I will tell you all the secrets and where to find the facts….for free.



For further information and lots of fun……

What it is all about.
THE SMELL OF VICTORY

By Steve Lange
Illustration by Marvin Friedman
Copyright © 1997 - Scouter Magazine



Last summer, I wrote my college physics professor asking for some Pinewood Derby car design advice. This is the reply he sent:
Cory,

1) To build a fast pinewood car, you should
2) ignore most of the usual advice. Do not
3) sand the wheels of your car. It will
4) make your car pull to one side, not
5) help it roll in a straight line
6) as desired.

7) Wheel alignment is one of the best ways to
8) waste a lot of your time. It certainly won't
9) improve performance. I have lots of
10) test data which proves this. There's also
11) evidence that lubrication will
12) collect on the axles and clog them, not
13) increase speed by decreasing friction
14) as most people claim. Don't lubricate!

15) Axle treatment and aerodynamics are
16) much too highly regarded. They're just not
17) very important. Your car should weigh
18) anywhere between one ounce and
19) five ounces. Back-weighting your car can
20) be disastrous. It certainly does not
21) provide additional potential energy
22) as is commonly thought. front-weight your car
23) for greater speed.

Dr. Frey

p.s. As I wrote the above at my son's pack
meeting, a rival den leader was spying over
my shoulder. he's gone now. read only the
*odd* numbered lines in each paragraph!

Pinewood Derby Discussion Board
A great source of ideas and information where you can ask the experts your questions
http://www.derbytalk.com/

Basic, how to and what if?
http://usscouts.org/pinewood/cspine.html

How to build a car...
http://www.inetworld.net/bosworth/howto.htm

Fast Facts
http://www.inetworld.net/bosworth/speed.htm

The Pinewood Derby Bible…...
http://members.aol.com/standcmr/lbw1.htm

Great site for car ideas,
Tools, plans, and custom speed parts…..how serious do you want to get?
The old adage "How fast do you want to go?, How mutch $$$ do you want to spend?"

http://www.maximum-velocity.com/

How to keep it fair and fun, elimination sets and competition….

http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/derby/methods.html
http://members.aol.com/standcmr/pwraces.html

Best sites for design ideas….

http://www.maximum-velocity.com/
http://www.pinewoodextreme.com/

Other resources.

http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/pwd-pwdsites.html

The pinewood derby test data ...
http://pack146.nova.org/pinewood/exper.html
http://pack146.nova.org/pinewood/expres1.html
http://pack146.nova.org/pinewood/expres2.html

And some more test data….although we are limited to dry graphite…..
http://members.aol.com/standcmr/pwfrictn.htm

Hard Core but qualifies as suspension and is there for not allowed...
http://www.goaskgrandpa.com/sample01.htm

And for those of you who love the smell of Pinewood….

http://www.wirlracing.com/

That should make for a good overview…..
HAVE FUN EXPLORING and LEARNING!
“Knowledge of all things is possible” Leonardo daVinci
User avatar
Stan Pope
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Posts: 6856
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Location: Morton, Illinois
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Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by Stan Pope »

BigSilver wrote:The Pinewood Derby Bible…...
http://members.aol.com/standcmr/lbw1.htm
Ummm .... Thank you, but ... I recall seeing a real publication by that name by another author advertised in late 90's. Dunno if still going or not. (I think it was not as thick as protrayed in "Down and Derby")
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
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BigSilver
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Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:33 pm
Location: High, Desert

Re: Why do you conduct your derby?

Post by BigSilver »

Thanks Stan,
I will make the correction to our notice to reflect the correct author and title. 8)
“Knowledge of all things is possible” Leonardo daVinci
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