We had a great derby!

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We had a great derby!

Post by DerbyAddict »

:D :D :D
Just wanted to share our PWD we had yesterday. Our boys worked hard last year to earn the money to buy a 3 ln Besttrack, Newbold Daytona timer and GPRM software. We ran a "time trials" day in mid Feb for the boys who wanted to come and test their cars and work on them a little.

My son, Benjamin, is a Bear this year and wanted his car built for speed. He was going for a trophy. We settled on Stan Pope's Rail Car design and read his online book (a donation is on the way Stan) to go for speed. Happy to say he built about 90 percent of the car including cutting it out with "hands on hands". 2 hours after the race he said to me, "Next year, can we cut the car a little thinner so we can put a little bit more weight towards the back." I about cried. He paid attention and actually learned something. He grabbed second place with his best friend taking 1st, which was also his only loss of the day. He was really proud of his car and happy that it was his friend that beat him out. He is looking forward to going to Districts.

After the race he raced against the first place car for fun and beat him. He thinks (and I have to agree) that if they had raced later in the actual race he could have beat him because "James' car was starting slow down like the graphite was wearing out." Sometimes you beat your head against the wall because you think they're not listening and then - POW - you realize they do listen and learn.

I worried about the new timer and software for the last 2 weeks but it was needless worrying. Both performed flawlessly. I had premade all the charts for import into GPRM depending on number of boys. We tested everything on Thursday night as a final "go-no go" checklist. Friday brought a unexpected wrinkle as our Charter Org made a mistake and double booked the hall we were going to use. We could have done it but we would have had to cut our event short. The church where we hold our Pack meetings came through for us once again as we scrambled to let everyone know the new location. I won't say we have someone looking out for us..... Ok, yes I will. We did a little extra "A Scout is reverent moment at the beginning of the races to thank Him for looking after our Pack.

Our derby started at 10:30 with registration, followed by opening ceremonies and lunch. At 12:15 the races began with a "Gentlemen start your engines!" We had 27 boys and each boy was scheduled to race 18 times. We displayed the time and mph on the screen but used actual points to determine the winner. We had some really close races which would have been hard to call by eye but the timer handled with ease. The GPRM software worked great and was a snap to use. We had 2 adults at the finish line keeping tally by hand in case the computer/timer malfunctioned we could easily go back to paper scoring. This would be Stan's famous "Plan B". Thanks again Stan. We only had to re-run 2 races because of jumping the track but we couldn't figure out why the cars did it. Two different cars in two completely different areas of the track.

To run the race, the boys would retrieve their cars from the staging area if they were listed in the "On Deck" screen which was projected on the wall. From the on deck circle they would move to the track and place their cars on the appropriate lane (with an adult there to ensure cars were placed in the correct lane and also over the center rail). The boys then went down the side of the track to watch the race and retrieve their car. From there they returned their car to the staging table to await their next heat. It was a big circle that kept the boys moving constantly. The number of races in such a short amount of time meant that the boys did not have a lot of time to dwell on a loss. Every 5 minutes or so they were racing again, and with a new race came a new opportunity to win. And best of all - NOT ONE SINGLE problem with parents arguing over results or rules or anything. All issues (not many actually) were discussed calmly out of earshot of the boys before the racing began.

We managed to run all 162 Scout races and 22 Adult/Sibling races in 2hrs and 11min. Several parents have already expressed interest in helping run the Derby next year. All in all a great day of racing with some great equipment, great parents helping out, and most of all a bunch of great boys doing what they came to do - RACE THEIR CARS!!!

Thanks to everyone here for their ideas and suggestions and just for having this board to look at. It helped us have our best Derby yet.
*****************************
Richard Sava
Cubmaster, Pack 241
Deltona, FL
*****************************
Any day racing PWD is a good day but winning makes a better good day!
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Stan Pope
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Stan Pope »

Thanks for a great report, Richard. And, a big pat on the back for you and your son ... for his comments on next year's car!

Would you ask your son a question for me and post his answer here on the forum? Ask him, "Wouldn't you rather have some adults racing your cars so that you could sit in the audience and watch without having to do all that work?"

I asked my (now 27 yo) son that same question a couple years ago. His typically understated response was, "That doesn't sound like much fun."
Stan
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Re: We had a great derby!

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His reply:
"No way, it's more fun to do it myself. I like racing my car."
*****************************
Richard Sava
Cubmaster, Pack 241
Deltona, FL
*****************************
Any day racing PWD is a good day but winning makes a better good day!
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Stan Pope
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Stan Pope »

DerbyAddict wrote:His reply:
"No way, it's more fun to do it myself. I like racing my car."
Spread the word!!! There are still folks out there who think that the boys should be spectators during the race.
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
Jthompson

Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Jthompson »

Richard,

Great review of your derby. We just had our first ever derby. Scouts were involved in all aspects...from hands-on-hands workshops with parents to design judging and racing their own cars. 29 of 31 Scouts participated in our first derby. When I have more time, I will share the details on this post.

The derby was a resounding success, but I have to say that our workshops were just as much fun! The last one before the race was fantastic. We played Down and Derby on our big screen in one corner of the garage as parents and Scouts performed final weigh in and adjustment on the drill press along with lubrication and alignment. One mother who had trouble with paint stayed after. Scout and partent painted their car! Our local press showed up along with over 40 people in our 3-car garage. Scouts were testing cars on our new track set diagonally in the garage.

Our local paper ran the story as the front page lead the day of the race. Here is the link.

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/ne ... 039242.php

Thank you to Stan, Randy, and all those who have posted topics. We could not have had as successful of an event as we did without all of you.

I am looking forward to next year.
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Stan Pope »

Good pub, John! Congrats!
Stan
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Down-N-Flames »

We are new to this pack although I did help them last year. Anyway, they in the past have a parent put the cars up there. When I suggested that the kids do it, the lead guy thought it was too high and some one would either get hurt or screw up something. I think it was more because "that is the way it has always been". Anyway after setting up the track on Friday night, I went home and built a stage for the boys to use. It was 6 foot long, so they could all keep moving. It worked out great and the kids enjoyed it more I believe!
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Pack11SanDiego »

Stan Pope wrote:...There are still folks out there who think that the boys should be spectators during the race.
There is now one less among that group. ;)

Thank you Stan, for bringing this subject up.

Our pack had "always done it that way" and we are going to try letting the boys actually participate this year. Our prelims are this coming Sunday.

I predict a rather positive response. :)

Mark M.
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by 2kids10horses »

At our Pack race, the Cubs get to stage their own cars. We had about 20 boys, so it was managable. Fortunately, no accidents!

At District, we had 80 Cubs, so it would have been chaos having the kids stage their cars! We had adult volunteers run the cars back from the finish line to the pit table, and I staged them at the starting block. And operated the starter.

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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Mike Parrish »

2kids10horses wrote:At District, we had 80 Cubs, so it would have been chaos having the kids stage their cars! We had adult volunteers run the cars back from the finish line to the pit table, and I staged them at the starting block. And operated the starter.

2kids10horses
At our Awana regionals, we had 87 racers. The kids got to stage their own cars. If the staging area is organized, and you have good help, you won't have the chaos you think. :D
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by 2kids10horses »

Mike, it was pretty chaotic as it was!

The main problem at our District is we use a Double Elim method. It's not computerized, and they use a manual draw.

The key is "well organized". The same guy who has run the District race was in charge again this year. I volunteered to help, but he was in charge. I generally ran one track, other guys ran the other.

But I don't think they really knew how to conduct a D-E. I think it took some cars about 4 losses before they got eliminated. (Not on MY track, the OTHER one! <grin>

Oh, well.

I agree that having the kids stage their cars would be preferable.

2kids10horses... and 27 Easter Bunnies for sale!
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Stephen's Dad »

The concept of greater Scout participation is a nice one.

But.........

I have this mental picture of the Boys running with their cars from the pit area to the starting area. :shock:

How involved are the boys? Do they also retrieve their own cars after a heat? Then what? Take them back to the pits or hang onto them? How has this impacted the time it takes to run a race? Haven't some cars been destroyed by drops?

We've never done this before. Rather we've used Den Chiefs or Adult volunteers who move the cars in dedicated foam padded wooden carriers.

Between data & electric cables part of me hates the idea of having the boys running around with their cars in close proximity to the track.

But if the Boys can safely participate without burning the clock....
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Stan Pope »

I guess I need to say this stuff again!

If the boy had not built the car, I could understand the parent's hesitation to allow the boy to stage his car. By the time most of these boys get to the races, they have spent quite a bit of time gently handling their car.

They don't run! At least, they don't run with their cars!

If it took twice as long to run the races (it doesn't), it would still be better for the boys to do it themselves! Some methods run as fast or faster if the boys race their own. Some heats take longer, though, because the boys stage their cars more carefully than track staff.

It does take more effort from the adults to let the boys race their own cars ... more preparation, more equipment. That's alright! Running a good den meeting takes more work, too!

I've seen more races run with boys staging and retrieving that I have with the boys kept outside. I've seen more cars dropped / damaged by track staff when the boys were not allowed to race their own. My grandson's car was dropped and damaged by track staff at his pack race this year. First year I visited his council races, I saw two track staff drop cars. And I was only watching one of the 4 tracks. Who knows what happened on the other 3 tracks? :(

And, how many times will a boy stage his own car backward? Ya gotta really watch the track staff!

Here's the broken car scenario choice:
1. I'm sorry I broke your car ... lets get mom or dad and see if we can fix it. (At least I hope an apology would be forthcoming.)
2. I'm sorry you broke your car ... lets get mom or dad and see if we can fix it.
Stan
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Mike Parrish »

2kids10horses wrote:... and 27 Easter Bunnies for sale!
I feel for you, we just got rid of our last two :lol:
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Re: We had a great derby!

Post by Stephen's Dad »

Stan said:

I guess I need to say this stuff again!
I have read it before too but if it makes the race better for some boys....

The Boys would certainly go for it. Perhaps if I knew when, where & why in our Packs history this "fear of Boys staging" began then I'd have less trouble lobbying for them to run their own race. I did hear a parent suggest it once & he was reminded that young Cubs aren't yet looking at the "Patrol method" of Scouting yet. But I'll be the first to admit that my own son handles his car VERY carefully.

I just asked Stephen what he thinks of this...."I think it would be more fun."

I'll call our Charter Org. Rep & some Committee members today. We've got a week left. Someone can bang together an elevated platform if I can get a consensus in short order.
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