Sibling Derby?

[Stephen's Dad]

For the first time in our Packs memory we're holding an "Open Class" Pinewood Derby especially so that siblings can join in the fun.

In Committee it was decided to run the Cub Scout Derby simultaneous with the "Open Derby". We have 2 tracks, 2 timers, 2 PA systems & 2 MCs volunteered their time.

Now the wrinkle. One MC is opposed to this method. This persons idea is to have the Cub Scouts run first & let the sibling entries wait until afterward. His feeling is that this is a Cub Scout event & they come first no matter what. He is perhaps justifiably concerned the event will be confusing to the spectators & might spoil the event for the Boys.

The other MC want to stick to holding the 2 derbies simultaneously with each alternating heats. This person wants equal exposure for the siblings siting that some parents have complained their other kids get bored at Scout events. This could get confusing since only 12 siblings are entered "open" & 50 Scouts are entered "main". We'd need to stage several Cub Scout heats & then switch to a single sibling heat to avoid having the siblings finish too early.

In an effort to appease the two rival factions I came up with a possible compromise that they both seem to hate.

My thought was to start with the Cub Scouts & let them run all of the Dens. Then prior to their Final trophy round, let the sibling derby run its course. Then run the Scout's final.

I'd love to hear how other units run their sibling derbies as well as opinions of the 3 methods mentioned.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

[DerbyAddict]

We run a sibling/adult derby. We run it after the Scouts run. We used to run it as a double elimination (NO NOT THE DREADED DE!!) but this year we ran a PPN chart.

We run the Scout races, then the sibling races, then announce the Pack Champions.

We don't run a "Pack finals", all the boys run together.

I think your idea of running the dens then the sibs then the trophy round is a great compromise. This puts the main focus on the Scouts, gives the siblings asomething to do in the middle then re-focuses the attention on the Scouts to end the program. Excellent idea. If you ever move to Deltona, FL I have room for you in my Pack!

One other thing, if you have the extra track, set it up on the side and let the siblings race for fun on it during the Scout races. We have done this the last two years and it has worked pretty good. They just need to have an adult at the track at all times and understand that if the car is broken it won't be able to run in the races.

[Pinewood Daddy]

We had our first "Open" Class this year also. We only had 9 entries; my wife, daughter and myself; 2 scouts (I didn't want scouts in it), 1 former scout, and 2 fathers. We ran it after the scout finals. My duaghter, myself and wife finished 1, 2 & 3. My daughters car broke the track record twice!!

Our main goal is to get the scout races done first. We've had electronics problems the last 2 years that delayed or postponed the finish of the races. This year no problems.

What do you do for the finals?? I wanted to have top 3 in each group, but we only raced the top car from each group on all (4) lanes to save time (we only have 2 hours to run all the races before we have to clean up and be out). This excluded 1 or 2 cars that might have had a shot at winning a trophy.

[gpraceman]

My thought was to start with the Cub Scouts & let them run all of the Dens. Then prior to their Final trophy round, let the sibling derby run its course. Then run the Scout's final.

I think this would flow a lot better than running on two tracks. Two tracks would be too confusing to try to watch and coordinate.

[Stan Pope]

If there is a possibility that "track staff" would also participate in the "open class" competition, then hold off the open until track staff can participate without being distracted from their main task.

If the races are concurrent, don't try to "alternate heats" unless you can be overlapping activities so that the "main event" is not slowed. They are independent activities.

What do you do for the finals?? I wanted to have top 3 in each group, but we only raced the top car from each group on all (4) lanes to save time (we only have 2 hours to run all the races before we have to clean up and be out). This excluded 1 or 2 cars that might have had a shot at winning a trophy.

Maybe you should have just one "overall" trophy? Would this allow you to award an extra trophy in each group? This would provide trophies for more boys vs. extra trophies for a few boys?

The key consideration is whether you must select representatives to district or council racing. If you need "N fastest in age group" then that should be your primary focus. If you need "N fastest overall", than that should be your focus.

[doct1010]

We run the open/sibling race after the main event. My thinking, as chairman, the primary focus should be the scouts event. The open is a fun event for all. In our case, waiting until main event was complete managed to keep more of the crowd around for cub finals, not always the case in years past. My 2 cents.

[Pinewood Daddy]

Maybe you should have just one "overall" trophy? Would this allow you to award an extra trophy in each group? This would provide trophies for more boys vs. extra trophies for a few boys?

The key consideration is whether you must select representatives to district or council racing. If you need "N fastest in age group" then that should be your primary focus. If you need "N fastest overall", than that should be your focus.

We have traditionally had a Fastest Overall trophy. I wanted to add a little excitement of having the fastest cars running together in a finals round to award trophies for the 3 fastest cars.

We send 3 cubs from the 3 major groups, Tigers, Cubs (Wolves & Bears), and Weblos (grouped I & II). Last year we got to send 4 from each group, I'm assuming because of pour turnout. I had to search to find people that would be willing to go to the District race!! I went thru all 12 Tigers to find the 4th to go. We only had 1 Weblo show up!!

[Packdude]

We have always had a sibling/adult Open class race. When we purchased our timer/derby software several years ago, we changed the way we run the derby (at the pack level). We run all of the cars at one time, usually based on the order in which they were registered. There may be cars from different ranks on the track at the same time, but they are competing against their own rank in the end.
At our district derby, we also have an Open class race. At district, the ranks are all raced individually, then the open class race is ran, then the top 3 finishers from each rank race in the overall race. The open class cars are not included in the overall race. Running the cars by rank takes longer, but is less confusing with a large group like we have at district.

[Stephen's Dad]

We did end up holding the Sibling or Open Class derby after the main rounds of the regular Scout Derby. But we held the Scouts final trophy round at the very end.

It's a good thing too. The Sibling Derby was short & all of the kids (scouts & sibs) had a lot of fun with it (no pressure - just fun).

I wish I could day the same for some of the parents & grandparents. Between the yawns & watch looks you'd think we were keeping them from something.

We actually had 2 Leaders schedule a dinner party for 4:00 PM when the derby started at 2:00 PM. Maybe it's just me, but the PWD is a big deal for most of the Boys. Entertaining a new neighbor is a pretty secondary event compared to the upbringing of my only son.

[heartofgold]

Old post, but please allow me to offer a fresh new prospective. We run an Adult/Sibling race with our pack. We apply the same rules to the adults that we do to the youth, for the most part. We have a plethora of leftover kits from previous years which we “sell” to siblings and parents for a $5.00 entry fee (mini fund raiser). For us, the race serves 2 purposes:

1) It provides an outlet for parents who would otherwise build their son’s car for them. For the most part, this works well.
2) Next, and this is the beauty of our setup, we set up our track the night before the pack race, and we run our adult race then. That way, if there are any track, timer, or computer problems, we can work them out in advance of the real race event. It allows us to practice check-in and car handling.

Conducting the race the night before also provides one additional benefit. At the same time, we have a pre inspection and weigh-in for the cub scouts' cars. This way, cars which would otherwise not pass inspection can be corrected in advance, rather than 30 minutes before race time. Cars are, of course, given a final inspection before race time, but it makes our check in go much smoother the day of the race.

The adults and siblings who participate feel included; the kids have fun watching the adult cars; and our race runs much smoother as a result. I cannot imagine running a pack race without having an adult race before hand to iron out the wrinkles.

[Go Bubba Go]

Our set up sounds similar to Doug's (heartofgold) above, and with similar benefits.

We set the track up the night before. "The crew" shows up about 530 pm to set up the track, tables, check in station, etc. Benefit #1: less setup time in the morning.

The boys arrive at 630 pm and can be "unofficially" checked out for weight, wheels, etc. Benefit #2: Car tweaks can be performed the night before, greatly reducing the "official" check in time (and pressure) in the morning (especially if a major fix is needed).

The boys can then run a few (4) trial runs with their cars. Benefit #3: We get to work out the bugs on the electronics, track, etc. before the real races.
At 830 pm, it's open class time (siblings, parents, grandparents, etc.)! Benefits #4, 5, ... This is a big hoot for a lot of us. It also gives the fathers (or mothers, siblings, etc.) that cannot participate on Saturday (job conflict, etc.) the opportunity to actually see their boy's car race and enter a car of their own if they want. I think it really primes the pump for Saturday morning.

[SpinDoctor]

We run all our rank races first. Then we run the open race. Then we run
the finals(1-2-3 for each rank qualify).

However, last year we did push the final up, because the races were running long and some scouts had to be at a BB gun league 1/2 hour away. My boys had to wait for the make-up shoot the next day because I am the Grand Marshal and could not leave.

[Darin McGrew]

About 6 years ago, our church switched from Pioneer Clubs (for the girls) and Christian Service Brigade (for the boys) to Pioneer Clubs for everyone. At that time, the derby was opened up to boys and girls. We still have an All Comers division for adults and any teens that want to participate. (We're currently switching back to CSB for the boys, but that's another topic.)

Registration and weigh-in is the Wednesday before the derby. Having the registration early makes derby day go so much more smoothly. It also allows the design judging to take place at the judges' convenience, rather than being squeezed in among all the other activities of derby night.

Saturday morning, adults set up the track, tables, chairs, etc. in Fellowship Hall. We run a few practice races with old cars to make sure everything is working well. If something goes sideways, then we have the afternoon to fix it.

The youngest kids (2nd grade and younger) race at 4pm. There's a potluck dinner at 5pm. The older kids (3rd-6th grade) race at 6pm, followed by the All Comers at 7pm.

We don't have access to Fellowship Hall before Saturday morning, so setting up earlier isn't an option. We have only one track, so alternating between tracks won't work. However, although we haven't done so recently, in some years we have had races alternate between age groups. Kids compete only within their own age group, but one heat will be one age group, the next will be another age group, and so on. This makes staging the heats easier, because you never have to worry about a car racing in two consecutive heats.