Awarding tropies

[DerbyDude]

I'm curious how other packs distribute the tropies for their pinewood derbies. In our pack, we only have trophies for speed. There are quite a few certificates awarded for things like most patriotic, best scouting theme, etc.

Here's what we do:
The entire pack races together. I'm not exactly sure what scheduling we're using but it's probably pope perfect N. When all is said and done, trophies are awarded as follows:

1-3 for each den
1-5 for the pack overall.

However, if you win one of the top 5 in the pack, you won't be awarded one of the den trophies.

This year, my son placed 4th in the pack overall. The third place overall was also from his den. So that means that the first place den trophy was only the third fastest car in the den.

Here's my issue. The trophy is a lie. The trophy says "1st place Den X". But the boy didn't finish in first place in den X at all.

It is better to artifically prop the kids up or give the awards as they should be?

I want to say that I'm not crying foul over my son not being awarded the second place den trophy but that may not be true. I'm still trying to work it out myself. I do have an issue with giving a kid a trophy that says '1st place' when he really finished 3rd.

I hadn't really thought about it much until I visited smoking Joe's web site and noticed that his son had been awarded both the den and pack trophies.

What do other packs do? Should I shut up and quit crying?

[Down-N-Flames]

For this year, I don't see much you can do. Now for next year get on the commitee and get that rule off there. I have a real problem with the idea of spreading trophies just to spread them.

My step son this year won speed for the pack. He also won for best of show. We worked hard on that car and we did a good job. I'm not tooting my own horn as much as saying we felt good at the end of the day that we did our best.

I happen to like the show part of it more, but way too often only speed is rewarded. Luckily for him this year is the boys picked the show winner and speed was proven on the track. He had been getting second a lot and really wanted a first if he could. He is a great sport and when we went to district we had to modify the car to fit the rules. He understood and was just as good as sport then even though the wheel had fallen off and alignment was blown.

Next year my garage will be open and I will be running the commitee. I feel I should help and I truely enjoy it. I thought the district race was a joke and the rules are goofy at best. I plan to get on that commitee too.

Sorry to go on, but first in den should get the first in den trophy and the first in pack should get that too. Oh and if it is a great looking car and should win first in show, let the boy take all three trophies, they worked for it (it is a parent child activity). Believe me,everyone will be after that builder the next year!!!!

Woody

[DerbyDude]

. Believe me,everyone will be after that builder the next year!!!!

Woody

Don't I know it. We took 1st in the pack last year and 4th this year. I was told that we were responsible for raising the level of competition. At the end of the pack derby I requested a race of the top 4 cars (4 lane track) for a runoff just for fun. The top 4 cars were within an inch or two. It was a great race. I hope we have a good showing at districts. Our pack came in second for the overall pack performance travelling trophy and we only had 4 racers (5 allowed per pack).

[Stan Pope]

A full array of Den (age group) trophies are great.
A full array of pack trophies are great, too.

But, full arrays of both are overkill, and create problems like you described.

What I'd suggest instead is to, at most, award one pack trophy, selected by racing the age group 1st place racers. Note that a 2nd place pack trophy is not valid in this plan. The costs of the other "pack" trophies can go toward more age group trophies!

There seems little sense to planning to give 4 or 5 racers two trophies each! I think I'm okay with planning to award one racer getting a second trophy.

This plan allows for more time to be spent with age group racing.

[ronin718]

We only had 12 racers in our pack this year, so we didn't have a big problem here. All the boys raced each other, with the top three getting trophies.

Last year, though, my son was in a much larger pack. The way they did it was they awarded the PWD color-coded pins to the top three in each den, then had those pin-winners race off for the pack championship, with the top three getting trophies. That alleviates the double trophy problem.

[DerbyDude]

We unfortunately don't do any den head to head racing. The boys also don't get to touch the cars after they've been checked in.

I think the more you get the boys involved in the racing, the more fun they'll have.

I need to think about this stuff for a while before talking to the cubmaster.

[*5 J's*]

Last year we awarded 14 trophies in our Pack. 1st - 5th fastest, Scouts Choice, Most Scouting Spirit (1st & 2nd), Best Craftsmanship (1st & 2nd), Most Artistic (1st & 2nd), Most Creative (1st & 2nd). However, we only allowed one trophy per Scout. After discussion here and with Pack leadership we decided that Scouts choice would be an exclusion to this policy.

This year I am thinking of some new improvements such as Den awards. My thought is to award 1-3 RIBBONS within each Den, and then having a "Fastest Den" trophy. To keep costs in check, I will only award 1st - 4th Fastest in the Pack (eliminating 5th fastest). This is consistent with District policy to send top 4 to District. Note these four will also go home with their Den's speed ribbons also. I will also suggest eliminating the Most Artistic Awards. Last year there seemed to be too many categories for the judges to pick from given the smallish size of our Pack. Only one trophy per scout with the exception of the Scout's Choice trophy (ribbons are excluded).

So the awards would be:
Pack Fastest (1st - 4th trophies)
Scout's Choice (1st trophy)
Most Scouting Spirit (1st & 2nd trophies)
Best Craftsmanship (1st & 2nd trophies)
Most Creative (1st & 2nd trophies)
Fastest Den (1st trophy)

Fastest Tigers (1st - 3rd ribbons)
Fastest Wolves (1st - 3rd ribbons)
Fastest Bears (1st - 3rd ribbons)
Fastest Webelos (1st - 3rd ribbons)

Last year we had approximately 28 racers and awarded 14 trophies. This year I anticipate 40 racers and have 11 individual trophies, 12 individual ribbons, and one Den trophy.

Does this sound good?

[Stan Pope]

Would the "fastest den" award prompt any den to try to keep "slower cars" from entering because they could "drag down the den's average"? Can you define the category in a way that entering a slow car or two does not hurt the den in this category?

[*5 J's*]

Would the "fastest den" award prompt any den to try to keep "slower cars" from entering because they could "drag down the den's average"? Can you define the category in a way that entering a slow car or two does not hurt the den in this category?

How would a scout identify a "slower car"?

I understand your concern - and I wouldn't want to start any intra-den discontent because "Johnny's car made us lose". The idea is to get intra-den communication on how to build a fast car. I think it may inspire innovation - I'm looking forward to listening to the various theories the scouts come up with.

Do you have a suggestion for better defining the category?

BTW - Monday night we had our annual Halloween Party. I had each Den make a boat for a Rain-gutter Regatta. We had each den line up along both sides of two 10 foot rain-gutters. On my mark the first scout blew the boat to the next scout, who blew the boat to the next, and so forth until the end of the raingutter. I ran Tigers against Wolf and Bear against Webelos - then the winners against each other to determine a champion. This was just one event at the Halloween party - but it was a huge hit - and it was a great team building exercise. I really think this is the way Regatta's should be run. (this isn't an invitation to critique the scheduling method - rather just sharing an experience that others may want to try).

[Stan Pope]

and I wouldn't want to start any intra-den discontent because "Johnny's car made us lose".

This is a stronger concern than the one that I expressed. Good catch!

There may be better ways, but the one that comes to mind right away is to use the average of the fastest proportion (maybe fastest half) of each den. That avoids your "Johnny" from getting blame.

(My first thought was to average the "fastest N cars" but that would hurt smaller dens.)

[*5 J's*]

and I wouldn't want to start any intra-den discontent because "Johnny's car made us lose".

This is a stronger concern than the one that I expressed. Good catch!

There may be better ways, but the one that comes to mind right away is to use the average of the fastest proportion (maybe fastest half) of each den. That avoids your "Johnny" from getting blame.

(My first thought was to average the "fastest N cars" but that would hurt smaller dens.)

That's a good suggestion.

Since my plan this year to fully jump into GPRM, I would like to keep everything within the software. I'm not sure GPRM has this ability. I believe GPRM can tell me the fastest Subgroup within a Group, but I don't know if I can have it give me the Subgroup with the fastest half.

[gpraceman]

Since my plan this year to fully jump into GPRM, I would like to keep everything within the software. I'm not sure GPRM has this ability. I believe GPRM can tell me the fastest Subgroup within a Group, but I don't know if I can have it give me the Subgroup with the fastest half.

You can view the "Team Standings" Report either comparing groups or the subgroups within a group. It will only show based on all of the heats that are currently done, so if you want it at the halfway point, you would have to run the report at that time.

[*5 J's*]

Stan's suggesting only calculating the times for the fastest 50% of the Subgroup - not 100% of the Group halfway through - for the purpose of awarding a Fastest Den award.

[gpraceman]

Stan's suggesting only calculating the times for the fastest 50% of the Subgroup - not 100% of the Group halfway through - for the purpose of awarding a Fastest Den award.

Well, the raw data is there. You'd have to compile it for that specialty purpose.

[Darin McGrew]

<peeve type="pet">
So, if a kid builds a car that earns both a "Most Creative" trophy and a "Pack Fastest" trophy, which does he receive? Is there any provision to take the kid's preferences into account? (I've known kids who would skip the speed trophy if that allowed them to receive a design trophy that they had earned, and vice versa.)

Or to flip the question around, are the design trophies consolation prizes for those who can't win the races, or are the speed trophies consolation prizes for those who can't win the design competition?

I think that the design and speed competitions should be independent, in that winning an award in one shouldn't preclude you from winning an award in the other.
</peeve>