Track Clearance

General race coordinator discussions.
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gpraceman
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Track Clearance

Post by gpraceman »

SpinDoctor wrote:I know most tracks usually provide about 1/4" clearance. But our district has a strict 3/8" rule.
That is to make sure the car won't bottom out on the curve. With solid lane guides it is more of an issue than the ones you see on the aluminum tracks. On a BestTrack you can get away with the 1/16" clearance in the middle of the car, but on a Piantedosi track you have screw heads to clear.

You can see the track profiles below for the aluminum tracks.

Piantedosi Oars Freedom Track
Image

BestTrack
Image


Our rules state a 3/8" clearance, but if it is less, then the car will be tried on the track to make sure there are no real issues. If not, we let it race.
Last edited by gpraceman on Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by 2kids10horses »

Randy, you ought not let a car race that violates a written rule. Well, you could let it RACE, just not be declared the winner! I know we want to let the boys run their cars, but an illegal car is an illegal car.

Just like we have the rule, "Only dry powered lubes allowed." We all know that Krytox or NyOil properly applied will not foul the track. But a rule is a rule, and should be followed.

It is unfair to let an illegal car compete with a legal car. The boys that made the legal cars may know that a lower CM is an advantage, and possibly could have made their car that way, too. But, if they followed the 3/8" rule they should not be penalized by having to race against a car that didn't follow the rule.

At Council, last year, a father tried to argue that his son's car was "legal" because we were going to be racing on an aluminum track, and the belly wouldn't touch the guide rail. To me that is irrelevant. To be legal, it has to pass "Inspection", which included having 3/8 inch clearance.

By the way, when we took our car and raced at WIRL, we failed inspection! We were one coat of paint longer than 7"!!! We had passed the 7 inch test at Pack, District and Council, but not WIRL. Fortunately, it was a "live" race, so we were able to fix 'er up with a touch of sandpaper!
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by Go Bubba Go »

Have to agree with 2k10h on this one.

Our (Pack and Council) rules state "The car must have an under-body and in-between-wheel clearance which will allow it to travel freely over a track lane strip which is 3/8 inches maximum in height and 1-3/4 inches maximum in width".

Whether a particular track that is going to be used has the maximum dimensions (or even has a center lane strip) doesn't change the rules. In our case, the "cost of admission" is that the car must have the clearance to be able to travel freely over a track lane strip that did have the maximum dimensions. Either the car has the "cost of admission" clearance or it doesn't.

Now, if the rule was written differently i.e. "The car must have an under-body clearance which will allow it to travel freely over the track lane strip of the track being used", that would be different (and the rule poorly written, IMHO).
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by gpraceman »

2kids10horses wrote:Randy, you ought not let a car race that violates a written rule. Well, you could let it RACE, just not be declared the winner! I know we want to let the boys run their cars, but an illegal car is an illegal car.
But our rule is written that way. If it doesn't pass the 3/8" clearance check, then it is tried on the track. If the car rubs on the track, then it won't pass inspection; otherwise, it will and is "legal". The rule is written, it is published, and it is applied to all cars.

If the rule was just written that 3/8" is the minimum clearance, then I would agree with y'all, but it isn't.

This all goes back to the intent of the rule. To make sure that the car will not bottom out on the track and fail to finish. It is what I would call a beneficial rule (helps give the car one less reason to not finish).
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by Teeeman »

For the sake of those who might endeavour to build a track, I don't see what the point is in having a rule that is not fully enforced...

3/8" in the rules, 3/8" is the standard...

If you use the "works on the track" rule it is confusing to me... I would then want to know what the track limit is and design towards it.

Rules should be enforced or should not be (my .02).

-Terry
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by gpraceman »

Teeeman wrote:For the sake of those who might endeavour to build a track, I don't see what the point is in having a rule that is not fully enforced...
The rule, as it is written, IS being fully enforced. Seems that your beef is that you don't like how we have written the rule.

Here's how our rule is written:
Chassis Clearance: 3/8 inch minimum is recommended. Any car with less of a clearance will be checked on the track to ensure that there will not be any interference with the track.
I am more concerned about cars not finishing than someone coming up with a design that tries to get a benefit from the track profile. If that becomes a problem, then we will revisit the rule. Too many times I have seen parents at the last minute slap weights on the bottom of the car only to not meet a 3/8" clearance. Most all of these cars when tried on the track will not have a problem, so we let them race. To me that is better than forcing the parents to put the weight on top of the car and ruining their design.
Last edited by gpraceman on Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by Go Bubba Go »

Teeeman wrote:If you use the "works on the track" rule it is confusing to me... I would then want to know what the track limit is and design towards it.
Pretty much my sentiments as well. A lot of the fun for me and the boys is in knowing exactly what the limits are and determining how to maximize speed and looks within those clearly defined limits. Case in point - there is another post running on axle slot depth where we are discussing how to lower CM when a "gotta use the stock axle slots" rule is in play. :( Hmmm... :idea: Nobody said the slots had to be on the bottom of the car... Build CM slightly above axle plane and "flip her over" :D

"Works on the track" can also get a little ugly when you go from one race level to the next (Pack to District to Council) and a different track is used. You now have 3 sets of limits for design criteria rather than 1, and boys that build to a local track that is more restrictive are at a slight disadvantage to boys that have a local track that allows lower design. Even worse, you may have boys show up who clear the track locally but rub on the track at District or Council, and don't discover that fact until District or Council check in time. :( Tough to adjust at that point.

It appears you are enforcing the rule as written, and I understand the intent, it is just a little too "loose" for my tastes. I believe it should be as clear and firm as the length, weight, and other restrictions.
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by 2kids10horses »

Randy,

If that's the way your rule reads, then you are applying it correctly.

Is that a local rule, or does your District/Council set the rules?

We're fortunate that our Council sets the rules and the Districts and Packs all use the same rules. Even if we all use different tracks!

Best...

2K10H
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by gpraceman »

Go Bubba Go wrote:"Works on the track" can also get a little ugly when you go from one race level to the next (Pack to District to Council) and a different track is used.
BTW - We have no council race and the pack rules are identical to the district rules.
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by Go Bubba Go »

gpraceman wrote:
Go Bubba Go wrote:"Works on the track" can also get a little ugly when you go from one race level to the next (Pack to District to Council) and a different track is used.
BTW - We have no council race and the pack rules are identical to the district rules.
But is it the same track? If so, no problem (not to my taste, but it's your race not mine...). If not, therein lies the risk of fitting locally and getting DQ'd for rubbing at District.
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by gpraceman »

Go Bubba Go wrote:But is it the same track? If so, no problem (not to my taste, but it's your race not mine...). If not, therein lies the risk of fitting locally and getting DQ'd for rubbing at District.
Yes, it is the same track, which belongs to our pack. Several other packs run on our track as well, as we rent out our whole crew and setup.

Your point is taken about tracks with differing profiles being used at different levels of racing. With our rule as it is, I would be more concerned if the district race was being done on a BestTrack and there were (are) packs running on wooden tracks (solid center guides). With the Piantedosi aluminum track, there are screw heads that must be cleared, not so with a BestTrack. At best a builder would only be able to lower their COG by about 1/16" (to be on the safe side).

While a few builders may still want to get their weight that extra bit lower, I am still more concerned about the far greater number of racers that need one less hurdle just in order to cross the finish line.
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by SpinDoctor »

We had similar issues last year.
Last year was the first year I ran the race.
I updated the pack rules to match 99% the district (open to all) race.
Upon inspection I would inform the entrants if their car would fail districts, so they could be adjutsed.

The biggest violation was the 3/8 clearance mostly by the tigers because they slapped the zinc waffer weights on the bottom. Part of our rule gives the derby committee discression. And in these cases we let them race as long as it cleared the track. Now if a competative car came in we discussed we would let it race but not qualify for awards.

It's a fine line between "fairness" and "fun". The goal of the pack derby is to have fun and then to be as fair as possible.

I agree Randy's Pack rule is a bit loose, especially if someone has access to the track to build and design to its tollerance and the rest of the pack does not. Otherwise, he is designing to the rule. Competative cars will take the specifications to the limits. If we could have only shaved off .00015 seconds off of my youngest son's car last year he would have won districts. Technically his car was the fastest, but one slow race (almost .2s slower), which he won put his net time .0009 behind first. I have to guess it was a poor start or another car jumped the gate and triggered the timer quicker or something.
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Re: Track Clearance

Post by gpraceman »

Seems we hijacked ranman106's dragster ideas thread with our discussion on track clearance, so those posts have been moved to this thread.
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Re: Dragster ideas needed

Post by gpraceman »

SpinDoctor wrote:I agree Randy's Pack rule is a bit loose, especially if someone has access to the track to build and design to its tollerance and the rest of the pack does not.
That is not the case with our track. It remains in a storage unit until it is setup the night before our pack race (which is also when we do check-in). For the other pack races we run, it is setup the same day as that pack's race.
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Re: Track Clearance

Post by Go Bubba Go »

Thanks, that occured to me with the last posting and I was starting to feel a little guilty :(

Sorry, ranman...
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