"Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

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Stan Pope
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"Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by Stan Pope »

For this year's Cub Scout Leader PowWow, I added a PP Presentation "Pinewood Performance Mentoring". It is intended to be used in conjunction with my previous PP presentation(s) on Pinewood Performance. It is aimed at providing the group's organizers with short presentation that emphasizes the role of PWD in the group's program with a goal of producing good cars with "more small fingerprints" and "fewer large ones."

Start at http://members.aol.com/standcmr/dp.htm which has the links to the three presentations and the notes for the new one.

I will share the OpenOffice source for these.
Stan
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Go Bubba Go
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by Go Bubba Go »

Stan:

Thanks for sharing your good stuff, yet again.

My only suggestion would be to add somewhere in your presentation the quote below from the man himself on the nature and purpose of the activity that he created. It reinforces and accentuates the points I believe you are trying to make and should serve as a benchmark against which we measure our efforts and suggested "improvements".

Bubba

"I wanted to devise a wholesome, constructive activity that would foster a closer father-son relationship and promote craftsmanship and good sportsmanship through competition."

Don Murphy,
Founder of the Pinewood Derby in 1953
Manhattan Beach, CA Cub Scout Pack 280C
"Who's Grandpa's neighbor?"... Phil Davis, Down and Derby
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by Stan Pope »

That is certainly a relevant quote! What Don said in that quote is "spot on" regarding how PWD should accomplish some of the purposes of Cub Scouting.

It is partly a matter of style. I prefer to build directly from "first principles", i.e. the aims and purposes of Cub Scouting, rather than from other sources derived from them. But that is just my approach ... I try to avoid appealing to authority and their interpretations when I can appeal directly to the "letter of the law."

However, it is a handy slide (or resource) to have on hand to answer questions such as "Are you sure you are interpreting all that correctly?" or "Stan, you're just blowing smoke!" Then quote "the man."
Stan
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by gpraceman »

Good job on the presentation.

I saw your how to build a rail car presentation as well posted. Now if only there was one on how to build a rail rider (hint hint for someone out there), since that is the latest craze.
Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by Stan Pope »

gpraceman wrote:Good job on the presentation.

I saw your how to build a rail car presentation as well posted. Now if only there was one on how to build a rail rider (hint hint for someone out there), since that is the latest craze.
Thank you, Randy.

Yes, I put the rail design up a couple years ago. :)

Lotsa approaches to RR. Easier/harder depending on local rules. So, I don't see a slide show on RR as being very easy to do.

For instance, if the body needs to be full width both front and back (some rules require that!), then ya gotta set the car up to sidewind just a bit! But, if the front can be legally narrowed by 1/16", then can go RR from normal dead-on alignment.

I had a minor epiphany Saturday while answering a question ... I was showing the slide of track profiles and one of the guys in class observed that the constant slope track does not give an advantage to rear-weighted cars. The light went on for me, so I replied, "That is right so far as energy is concerned ... the PE doesn't change by moving the CM around. But, look for reasons why there would be value in having lower weight and friction in some of the wheels."

I don't usually provide the complete, definitive answer in such situations. Rather, I like to point 'em in the right direction and know what questions they should be asking themselves.

The reasons are twofold: (1) There is great satisfaction to be gained from some discovery, and (2) I don't want to make a "cookbook." Better they should understand "why" before discovering "what."
Stan
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by Go Bubba Go »

Stan Pope wrote:I had a minor epiphany Saturday while answering a question ... I was showing the slide of track profiles and one of the guys in class observed that the constant slope track does not give an advantage to rear-weighted cars. The light went on for me, so I replied, "That is right so far as energy is concerned ... the PE doesn't change by moving the CM around. But, look for reasons why there would be value in having lower weight and friction in some of the wheels."
Interesting "minor epiphany". And without a transition area to worry about, one could be even more aggressive about the rear weighting...
"Who's Grandpa's neighbor?"... Phil Davis, Down and Derby
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by Stan Pope »

Go Bubba Go wrote:
Stan Pope wrote:I had a minor epiphany Saturday while answering a question ... I was showing the slide of track profiles and one of the guys in class observed that the constant slope track does not give an advantage to rear-weighted cars. The light went on for me, so I replied, "That is right so far as energy is concerned ... the PE doesn't change by moving the CM around. But, look for reasons why there would be value in having lower weight and friction in some of the wheels."
Interesting "minor epiphany". And without a transition area to worry about, one could be even more aggressive about the rear weighting...
But that doesn't give the usual curved track advantages. Instead, one must look to how the light front end allows lower overall losses.
Stan
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by Go Bubba Go »

Stan Pope wrote:But that doesn't give the usual curved track advantages. Instead, one must look to how the light front end allows lower overall losses.
True, but I wasn't considering the usual curved track advantage (added PE), I was considering how the effect of putting even more of the weight on the rear wheels would reduce friction lost when the front wheel (just 1 :wink: ) rides along the rail, even on a continuous slope.

My reply didn't really specify my reason for getting more aggressive rearward, but I was trying (and still am a little) not to blurt out what I think is your punch line :oops:

It would be interesting to see just how far back you could go with the weight before the front wheel no longer serves as an effective guide, but just rides along the rail (or bounces off) without effectively steering the car and keeping the rear wheels where you want them. I suspect that, especially on a comparatively steep slope, one might end up with a car that actually popped a wheelie when laid on a flat surface, but had juuuuust the right amount of weight on the front end when laid on the slope.

Bubba
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by Stan Pope »

Yes! And that is the "punch line."

In a classroom situation, I'd rather have the students delivering the punch line as part of their discovery process. What they "discover for themselves" will stick longer and better than if I just tell "the answer."

The risk, of course, is that a few will leave as confused as they arrived.
Stan
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by sporty »

Stan,


First let me say nice presentation and nice sharing it with all of us.


As some of you may know, my oldest son. Races in Rally races and the closest local race in the All American soap Box Derby.


Most of these are hills with a slope. Example 32 degree on top. 700 feet to the bottom with a 7 degree or less at the finish line.

With stock class being 200 pounds. they do restrict the tail weight.


But I also can say on some of the races and ramps used for the race.


That tail weight is not always a factor and sometimes actually slows you down. Depending on the hill and ramps being used.


But low is always referred. get that CM as low as possible and stationary.

Meaning the less the driver weighs, the rule is more advantage is given with more weight placed lower in to the ground. With less potential for uneven weight caused by the drivers body mass.

Cross bind is the key in soap box derby along with wheel alignment.

Toe in or toe out, camber in or camber out.

The one difference I feel is the big factor in trying to compare the two or three sports. PWD/Cubmobile/Soap box Derby.


Weight. lack of it.

Much hard to measure cross bind and alignment in smaller scale racers, like the PWD car.

For soap box derby we go to .003 or less for alignment on the axle / wheels !

Hay, we might see a mini zero-error alignment gauge and crossbind alignment stand some day !!


Sporty
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by Stan Pope »

sporty wrote:Stan,


First let me say nice presentation and nice sharing it with all of us.

...

Much hard to measure cross bind and alignment in smaller scale racers, like the PWD car.
You're most welcome.

Nearly as I can tell from a frustrating Google search is that "cross bind" is caused by the axles not being in the same plane. I'd go a step farther and think about "that portion of the axles on which the wheels actually spin" not being in the same plane, just in case there is flex in the axles.

Tools like a (properly used) drill press or a (properly used) ProBody tool get you really close. My alignment process (if the wheel radii and bore radii are consistent) gets you the rest of the way! One of the causes of Wheel Migration is axle being off-plane (cross bind)! There are other causes which we try to eliminate along the way, too. The process also compensates for minor wheel size variation.

Are there other definitions of "cross bind" of which I should be aware?
Stan
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by sporty »

Stan,


I have a article of crossbind that is pretty good to read, to find more on crossbind. You have to look to soap box derby articles..

toss me a e-mail and I will send it to you.


Sporty
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by chad9229 »

This is a great presentation!!! I will be teaching Cub races at our Council's Pow Wow in January and I will use this Presentation to help me out!!!

Thank you for the ideas!!
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Re: "Mentoring Pinewood Performance" PowerPoint

Post by Stan Pope »

chad9229 wrote:This is a great presentation!!! I will be teaching Cub races at our Council's Pow Wow in January and I will use this Presentation to help me out!!!

Thank you for the ideas!!
Thank you for the coments. Cub Races sounds like our "Derbies Galore", which was my other topic for this year. I put up a different page for that one. See http://members.aol.com/standcmr/dg.htm.
Stan
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