Another season over...well sort of.

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bad_karma_2805a1

Another season over...well sort of.

Post by bad_karma_2805a1 »

So this weekend my Pack hosted our District's pinewood derby. Having never been to one in this Council before, I think it went rather well. I did not sleep the night before making sure that every "i" was dotted and every "t" was crossed. I think the biggest key to the success of the race was the prep work and my team. At the Pack race last month we ran into some technical issues that really, how can I put it...ruined my great pinewood buzz. So learning from those mistakes I made sure all systems were go before the District race.

The Bears were the stand out races this year. With the top speed for the track being set by a Bear (222.7 mph) and some of the closest races I have ever seen (first and second place separated by .001 of a second and second place being a tie!), it was some great racing. The Wolf's had the coolest cars though, with lights, lifts, and cool paint jobs, I wish I could have given away design awards.

So, two races down and the Council race not till November...whatever will I do this summer? Wait, I have an idea a big idea! What if I......leave you wondering a little while longer.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Another season over...well sort of.

Post by Stan Pope »

Survival is one reward. Many smiling faces are another. Good going!
bad_karma_2805a1 wrote: At the Pack race last month we ran into some technical issues that really, how can I put it...ruined my great pinewood buzz. So learning from those mistakes I made sure all systems were go before the District race.
It would be instructive for us if you detailed the problems and solutions.
bad_karma_2805a1 wrote:The Wolf's had the coolest cars though, with lights, lifts, and cool paint jobs, I wish I could have given away design awards.
Is it within the traditions of your district races to expand the competition in the future? Design and craftsmanship are also skills worth recognizing!
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
bad_karma_2805a1

Re: Another season over...well sort of.

Post by bad_karma_2805a1 »

Stan...I can certainly fill you all in on the issues at the Pack and District races.

1) Oops I didn't know. We do our weigh in a week before the actual race. This year we had Scouts not get registered into the system. Come race day suddenly people are showing up with cars. For weigh in, I set the tables up just like we did last year and it seemed like things went smooth. However some people got everything done and then just went home with their cars. We keep the cars in storage until race day to make sure nothing funny is done to them after they are tech inspected. I asked around and a few people felt that the way I did weigh in this year was confusing. So to make sure we don't have a repeat of this year I made a few changes. First, each station has a number and on the inspection sheets they are listed by number. As long as the people can count they should make it to all the stations. Second, my station where I enter people into the computer and take the cars will be moved to an area by the doors. This I hope will allow me to notice anyone walking out with a car. Third, I will better communicate the way weigh in runs so there shouldn't be any "I didn't know." comments.

2) Where is the (enter item here). We had parts for our track stored in 4 different places. This was done because...well honestly I don't know why it was done but that is what happened. So come weigh in day a few items we needed could not be found, nothing critical but things we did need. The two most important were the wood we but the cars on to display them and the boxes we use to store them. Both items were, how can I put this...at this persons house, in this closet, or out in the shed. Actually they were no where to be found. We managed to get some boxes and some wood strips around the church to use, but it was a headache. So as of today, every piece, part, or needed item for us to conduct races is stored in one of two places. The track, numbered wood strips, storage boxes, and a couple of other items are stored at a church we meet at. Items like scales, t-shirts, registration items, and things that are small and more sensitive are now in a nice container in my basement. I also made a list of the items needed and where they actually are to place in my "PWD Bible".

3) Starter ready? Well we had some issues at the Pack race with the timer. As it turned out it wasn't so much the timer that was the problem, but the people who were starting the race. For some reason flicking the little starting lever is harder then I thought. So to work on this problem I know have my good friend and fellow pine head Bill as the starter. At the District races we had only one timing issue and that was because the software wasn't ready. The note on this one is to make sure whoever is running the gates actually is...um...to be polite "qaulified" to do the job.

4) Grumblers. A smart man, well one smarter then me at least, once said "Scouting would be a lot of fun, if there were no parents to mess it up." Truer words have not been said, except maybe "Cub Scouts is like herding cats!" At both races I had to deal with grumblers and I always make my decisions based on one simple thought...WHAT IS BEST FOR THE SCOUT? I know that parents always want the best for their kids, but sometimes what is best for them is not best for everyone.

When a boy named Jacob shows up with Mom and Grandpa and his wheels are actually glued to the axles, I let them have the car to work on it. Sure it isn't in the pits where it should be, but in this case the car isn't going to win anything so no harm no foul. Side note: we actually got the whole crowd cheering on this Scout. His car made it to within 6 inches of the finish line on the last run, but the kid had fun so that's what matters.

When the timer goes bad at the Pack race and one of the fastest cars suddenly isn't in first place, well you get a grumbler. Dad tries to use math way above my level, lots of big terms, and some huffing and puffing to make his point. Well in his view his son should be in first place, but what about the other Scouts? After a few emails with some quantum physics and calculus involved, I made the call. What was fair was for me to remove the slowest time from EVERY car not just his sons. When this was done, I did it again, and then checked it again. So with everyone's times adjusted guess what, his son did win...but only by a small margin. So I get another trophy and we have a tie. Was it a tie, no, but everyone is happy and because I did it to everyone's car no one was able to say it wasn't fair.

When people know they have to be at the races 30 minutes early and the weigh in area closes 10 minutes before the races begin, BUT show up 5 minutes before the race, yes you guessed it, you get grumblers. Now I am not sure how many emails and phone calls it takes to make people understand, but I didn't do enough it seems. The weigh in is closed, the race matrix is being finalized and a family walks in. Now some people would say no biggie let the Scout race. But what is that teaching him and his parents? So as much as it hurt, I had to tell the two families that came in they could not race. I know that seems like an a**hole thing to do, but it is the right call. Rules are made to make sure everyone gets a fair race. Times were set and everyone knew, sorry but that is the way it is.

Grumblers are always going to be there, that is just a given. The best way to deal with them is to be fair and consistent all the time. Also, you have to be like a baseball umpire, sure you can yell at them but in the end the call they make is the call that stands.

4) Well it passed inspection at my Pack! This is the biggest thing I ran into at the District race. In each car kit you get a set of rules, these are the official BSA rules and are the foundation for which a Pack makes it's rules. In the case of the District races two of these rules came into question. First is that the car must weigh no more then 5 ounces and the second is that the car must have a clearance of 3/8th of a inch between it and the track. Sure Packs can add addition rules, but those two are in the BSA list. So when a car comes in heavy you get "Well it was 5 oz at my Pack!", simple problem to deal with. Get the official 5 ounce weight out and show them the scale is correct, then remind them the rules clearly state that the official scale is the final word. Give them the hand drill and tell them to come back when they are ready to have it checked again.

It seems that a lot of the Packs that raced don't enforce the ground clearance rule. I say this because in total 13 cars came in with the weights under the car which meant they didn't have the correct distance. I am not sure how or why people let rules slide but this was a big one. So 13 times I had to come upfront and say, "Well unscrew the weight and put it on top." Followed by "Yes I understand that it will make the car look bad, but those are the rules." Now, the cars could have made it down the track no problem, I know I checked, but the fact of the matter is the rules state the distance so you have to meet it, period end of story.

The one comment I heard a few times was that I should have posted the rules somewhere. To a point I guess they are right, but saying "Official BSA rules will be used in this race." seems to cover it. But, hey next year I will make sure whoever does the race (which I assume will be me again), posts the rules very clearly and on everything that is sent out.

Well there you have the top four issues I ran into during the last couple of races, if you have any questions or comments let me hear them. Have a great day and I will talk to you all later.
bad_karma_2805a1

Re: Another season over...well sort of.

Post by bad_karma_2805a1 »

Oops almost forgot, I would like to add those items in the future Stan. I am not sure if with the time we have it can be done. But that is something to look at for next year.
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Re: Another season over...well sort of.

Post by Stan Pope »

Thanks for all the detail! A few learning opportunities shared. Things that can go wrong that haven't happened to some others ... yet ... and now, maybe they won't happen to 'em.

Your racing scheme probably does not allow it, but we handle late arrivals at district a bit differently ... What ever rounds they miss, they lose. Since it is a quintuple elimination, if they missed the first 5 rounds, they are out. Until then, they still have a shot at 1st. But we don't "expedite" them through inspection ahead of the next age group that is still being inspected. With racing in February in the midwest ... it may be sunny and warm, or raining cats and dogs, or ice covered streets ... never know, and families trying to find their way to some strange place somewhere in our 3 county district, it seems prudent for us to penalize tardiness less harshly and pro rata.

Good or not, we approach the clearance issue differently. A car with "spec" clearance is protected from some track faults. A car that doesn't make the 3/8" clearance is allowed to race if the owner wants, but doesn't get a rerun if he "scrapes the track." I should ask our team to look at this again to be sure that we aren't opening up an advantage for going below 3/8" ... it could be.

Sounds like otherwise we're on the same wavelength. More importantly, you survived to race another day.

Thanks for sharing.
Stan
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Re: Another season over...well sort of.

Post by FatSebastian »

BK, thanks for the detailed response!
bad_karma_2805a1 wrote:When the timer goes bad at the Pack race and one of the fastest cars suddenly isn't in first place, well you get a grumbler. [...] What was fair was for me to remove the slowest time from EVERY car not just his sons.
If you used the median time rather than using a trimmed mean / accumulation, I wonder if that would have changed the outcomes yet again? IMO median times have advantages when outlying readings are of suspected; it may also be simpler to understand and seemingly more objective than subjective data trimming (easier to justify).
bad_karma_2805a1 wrote:In each car kit you get a set of rules, these are the official BSA rules [...] The one comment I heard a few times was that I should have posted the rules somewhere. To a point I guess they are right, but saying "Official BSA rules will be used in this race." seems to cover it.
Does this imply that your District rules are simply the rules in the box? (The rules in the box are clear on weigh and clearance, but are notoriously vague in other aspects, such as allowable wheel modifications.)
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Re: Another season over...well sort of.

Post by Jeff Piazza »

bad_karma_2805a1 wrote:Rules are made to make sure everyone gets a fair race. Times were set and everyone knew, sorry but that is the way it is.
Were the check-in times really set to ensure fairness, or for the convenience of the race crew? IMHO, it's not necessary to encode things like this as rules. Once a policy is promoted to a "rule," these kind of enforcement issues naturally arise.

If the concern is that, unless the check-in times are considered as a rule, racers will show up late and demand to race, well, in my experience, that just isn't the case. No one plans to be late; increasing the penalty for tardiness doesn't make people more or less likely to be late.

In our pack and district races, we make every reasonable effort to accommodate late arrivals. For one of our dens last year we ended up running four extra heats, each with three byes, to let a late racer be included. In another year we scheduled a late-arriving wolf to race with the bears (but then put him in the standings with the wolves, where he belonged).

I can't prove it, but I believe that this kind of flexibility also helps reduce the amount of grumbling in other areas. If the enforced rules are clearly about fairness (only), then people are generally happy to comply.
bad_karma_2805a1 wrote:It seems that a lot of the Packs that raced don't enforce the ground clearance rule. I say this because in total 13 cars came in with the weights under the car which meant they didn't have the correct distance. I am not sure how or why people let rules slide but this was a big one.
The clearance rule is another rule that shouldn't be, in my opinion. 3/8" ground clearance should be advised, not required. Or, said another way, the event organizer promises that 3/8" clearance with standard wheelbase is sufficient to avoid contact with the track; anything else is at the builder's risk. It escapes me why anyone perceives this as something that needs to be addressed by rules and inspection.
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Re: Another season over...well sort of.

Post by FatSebastian »

BK, like you, I believe that existing rules should be fairly enforced (or else eliminated). However, I think Jeff and Stan raise some good points.
bad_karma_2805a1 wrote:At both races I had to deal with grumblers and I always make my decisions based on one simple thought...WHAT IS BEST FOR THE SCOUT? [...]
Now some people would say no biggie let the Scout race. But what is that teaching him and his parents?
:thinking: Is turning away a scout who arrives before race time but is technically late "WHAT IS BEST FOR THE SCOUT"? I suspect that tardiness is rarely the fault of the scout - sometimes the circumstances are even beyond the parents' control (weather, traffic, car trouble, parking, bad directions, etc.) What did this teach the Scout, and is that a lesson that Pinewood Derby intends to teach Cub Scouts?
bad_karma_2805a1 wrote:It seems that a lot of the Packs that raced don't enforce the ground clearance rule. [...] Now, the cars could have made it down the track no problem, I know I checked...
Jeff Piazza wrote:It escapes me why anyone perceives this as something that needs to be addressed by rules and inspection.
In every race we have been in, it has been as Jeff described: 3/8" clearance is recommended but inspection checked if cars would actually drag the center rail. I could agree that if the District track allows for racing with less than 3/8" clearance, then perhaps the District requirements might be revisited?
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Re: Another season over...well sort of.

Post by rpcarpe »

Congrats on getting Districts done, sounds like a big event.
- Rules, make 'em simple, post them WAY in advance. In our District, the revised rules will be published and sent out around October, races are in March.

- Weight, wood cars change weight according to local conditions. At our District, we had a few cars come in a little heavy. You did the right thing, make all the cars weigh 5oz.
My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.
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