Team Standings Competition at the District or Council Derby?

[Russell Labs]

I am the Council PWD chairman for our 7 county area. This year, we expanded our District (2 county) PWD to a Council wide race, but had a reduction in the number of entries by nearly half from the previous year. There were several factors that caused this - open invitation vs qualification, resistance to change from what worked in the past, opening day of baseball, and some DE level discouragement. This is not what I want to discuss.
I am considering adding a Team Competition element for the Council Race where we recognize the Pack that scores the best at the Council Race as the Team Champion. This should increase the participation and also the cheering and camaraderie for other team members from the same Pack. Has anyone attempted this? How do you set it up in Grand Prix Race Manager software? What are the pro's and con's of adding a team competition at the District and/or Council level? What is the best way to set up scoring? What is an appropriate award for the Pack that wins? How many team award levels should be given?

[FatSebastian]

What is the best way to set up scoring? What is an appropriate award for the Pack that wins?

Also, might ties be acceptable or would a method of tie-breaking be needed?

[gpraceman]

I am considering adding a Team Competition element for the Council Race where we recognize the Pack that scores the best at the Council Race as the Team Champion. This should increase the participation and also the cheering and camaraderie for other team members from the same Pack. Has anyone attempted this? How do you set it up in Grand Prix Race Manager software?

If your groups are the ranks and the subgroups are the packs, then you can use the Subgroup Team Standings report.

If you are looking for an team champion across all of the ranks, then you would need to do a custom report. You can use the Custom Field (normally used for Car Name) to store the pack number. Then export the Round Standings report to CSV or XLS and massage it with MS Excel.

[Stan Pope]

I fear that implementation of a "Team Championship" will have a negative impact on the role of intrapack competition. This would significantly change the nature of the parent-child activity which is an important part of the purpose of PWD as a Cub Scout program. I don't have specific data to supply, but I have had a few experiences locally that lead me to suspect the outcome.

Before implementing this, I'd like to see you research the experience of others who have tried this idea and learn how it affected their program. Look at an extended view ... 3 to 5 years at least. What happened to PWD participation in pack, district, and council races?

[Russell Labs]

Stan and Randy,
I appreciate your input. I thought you two would have some knowledge and insight. My only comparison I could think that would be similar was an invitational swimming meet. In a swim meet, each race is an individual competition where the individual scores combine for a team total. In this case, each Pack would be similar to a swim team. At a swim meet, the team competition seems to add excitement by being able to pull for your team members.

I fear that implementation of a "Team Championship" will have a negative impact on the role of intrapack competition. This would significantly change the nature of the parent-child activity which is an important part of the purpose of PWD as a Cub Scout program.

Since this would be done at the District and/or Council level and not at the Pack level, I don't understand how that would effect the intrapack competition. What experiences have you had that could cause problems in staging a team competition? The only potential problem I can think of is if an expert PWD builder built and handed out lots of cars to his pack for the District/Council race. If the expert teaches how to build fast cars, it should raise the bar for everyone involved even at the pack level, which should be a good thing.

Before implementing this, I'd like to see you research the experience of others who have tried this idea and learn how it affected their program. Look at an extended view ... 3 to 5 years at least. What happened to PWD participation in pack, district, and council races?

This is why I raise the question for this forum which is the only way I know to research this team competition concept. Has anyone else done anything similar? The only other way that I can think of to do research is to try it and see how it works. This idea would be designed as a way to increase participation.

[Stan Pope]

Stan and Randy,
I appreciate your input. I thought you two would have some knowledge and insight. My only comparison I could think that would be similar was an invitational swimming meet. In a swim meet, each race is an individual competition where the individual scores combine for a team total. In this case, each Pack would be similar to a swim team. At a swim meet, the team competition seems to add excitement by being able to pull for your team members.

A better analogy would help the case. This one fails because the coach and his assistants can not swim for the team members. Follow the implications of this to discover ways that the plan can go wrong.

I think that there is already a strong inclination for boys to cheer for the results of others in their pack. It is certainly encouraged by most.

I fear that implementation of a "Team Championship" will have a negative impact on the role of intrapack competition. This would significantly change the nature of the parent-child activity which is an important part of the purpose of PWD as a Cub Scout program.

Since this would be done at the District and/or Council level and not at the Pack level, I don't understand how that would effect the intrapack competition. What experiences have you had that could cause problems in staging a team competition? The only potential problem I can think of is if an expert PWD builder built and handed out lots of cars to his pack for the District/Council race. If the expert teaches how to build fast cars, it should raise the bar for everyone involved even at the pack level, which should be a good thing.

Before implementing this, I'd like to see you research the experience of others who have tried this idea and learn how it affected their program. Look at an extended view ... 3 to 5 years at least. What happened to PWD participation in pack, district, and council races?

This is why I raise the question for this forum which is the only way I know to research this team competition concept. Has anyone else done anything similar? The only other way that I can think of to do research is to try it and see how it works. This idea would be designed as a way to increase participation.

When faced with a comparable question about 15 years ago, I took the question to several of the online scouting forums. These are frequented by district and council program volunteers who could access their district/council program history. Based on that survey I decided to not pursue changes in our local program. My goal at the time was, like yours, to increase participation in a district event. What I concluded was that the folks who had designed our district event had done so with more wisdom than I brought to the table.