Allow extended wheelbase?

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pwrd by tungsten
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Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by pwrd by tungsten »

What are folks thoughts on allowing extended wheelbase?

I use to be in the allow it at all cost camp. I am not that way anymore. However I see less DQs and easier checkin with extended wheelbase allowed.
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by quadad »

If you are not requiring people to use the slots, I see no problem with it. It allows more body styles and creativity and less picky issues at check-in.
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by gpraceman »

I really do not have a problem with allowing extended wheelbase. I also don't have a problem with everyone having to use the standard wheelbase, as long as the rules are clear and are enforced consistently.

Axle slots aren't always parallel to one another, so I do think that racers should have the recourse to fix the problem by either cutting new slots or be allowed to drill axle holes. There are inexpensive ways to do this and within the capability of the kids, with adult guidance.

Our district rules did require that the standard wheelbase be used, but they did not require the use of the axle slots. Though, if racers did drill axle holes, they had to make sure that the axle tips were visible for inspection. That was to make sure they were nail type axles, not the pin type.
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FatSebastian
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by FatSebastian »

pwrd by tungsten wrote:What are folks thoughts on allowing extended wheelbase?
I am in favor of simple rules that are easily enforced. Rules that dictate wheelbase requirements may raise a host of questions:
  • Does an "original wheelbase" specification imply the use of original slots?

    Can the axles be moved forward or aft on the block without changing their separation distance? If not, can a part of the block be removed and replaced to effectively change their location relative to the ends? (How can an inspector tell the difference?)

    How far can the axle separation be before a wheelbase is officially "extended" (that is, what is the margin of error in the "original wheelbase" specification)? There seems to be variability in the slot separation distance from block to block.

    Must each axle pair be placed exactly opposite of each other in the horizontal direction? If so, then why not also specify vertical placement (disallow raised wheels) as well?

    Must the car use all four wheels?
IMO wheelbase restrictions hamper creativity and complicate the specification, inspection, and enforcement of rules.

By disallowing an extended wheelbase, what is trying to be accomplished? :idk:
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by gpraceman »

FatSebastian wrote:By disallowing an extended wheelbase, what is trying to be accomplished? :idk:
An more even playing field, just like making everyone use a certain brand of wheels.
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by FatSebastian »

gpraceman wrote:
FatSebastian wrote:By disallowing an extended wheelbase, what is trying to be accomplished? :idk:
An more even playing field, just like making everyone use a certain brand of wheels.
To be more specific, I am curious as to what changed pwrd by tungsten's thinking from "allowing at all costs" to "I am not that way anymore"?
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by Darin McGrew »

We try to keep our rules simple. The only limitation on the wheelbase of a car is our "fit the track" rule. Among other dimensions, we specify the maximum distance between the nose of the car and the rear axle. And at our workshops, we have tools that can be used to change the wheelbase. Although we don't actually promote changing the wheelbase, I've helped a number of kids and adults change their wheelbase over the years. It isn't that hard to do.
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by Nitro Dan »

Darin McGrew wrote:And at our workshops, we have tools that can be used to change the wheelbase.
IMO, this is the best way to make the rule fair to everyone. If you have the rule and the majority of your racers don't have the "know how" or can't get the necessary tools to extend their wheelbases, then you are making an unfair advantage to those who can. If the organization is providing a way for everyone to easily extend their wheelbases, then fairness is being achieved.

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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by FatSebastian »

Nitro Dan wrote:
Darin McGrew wrote:And at our workshops, we have tools that can be used to change the wheelbase.
IMO, this is the best way to make the rule fair to everyone. [...] If the organization is providing a way for everyone to easily extend their wheelbases, then fairness is being achieved.
Nitro presents a fair point; although, as Darin suggests, is changing the wheelbase really an overwhelming technological leap? :scratching: My impression has been that race teams which don't extend their wheelbases simply didn't research and recognize the potential advantages of that configuration (or, they knew but just didn't care to heed the advice).

I do not feel that extended wheelbases present an "uneven playing field" should workshop tools be unavailable, especially since this configuration is hardly a "silver bullet". Ultra-light wheels on the other hand...
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by pwrd by tungsten »

Thanks guys. I use to think that extended wheelbase was a must have. Meaning families would think rules as too restrictive if it was not allowed. I can now say that racing these cars is fun regardless of the wheelbase. :D :D :D
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by Darin McGrew »

As FatSebastian said, extended wheelbases aren't a silver bullet. And yes, everyone can have fun building and racing cars with stock wheelbases. But I really don't see any benefit in restricting the wheelbase, and I think restricting the wheelbase limits car designs unnecessarily. There are some designs that just wouldn't look right if they had to use a stock wheelbase. (I've even shortened the wheelbase slightly, when a design called for it.)
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by quadad »

All good comments so far. My only 2 cent contribution that I didn't see mentioned is "What is it that your district or council rules limit ?". If there is opportunity for Pack cars to move on to other levels, then it is certainly worth seeing what they restrict. For example, our Pack allows any wheelbase, but at Council level they do restrict to standard wheelbase. You can still do what you want in the Pack, but it would be good to pass on that kind of info early on to your racers.
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Re: Allow extended wheelbase?

Post by sporty »

Yeps, the main thing to get set up, is the same rules for the packs in all those areas. That way district and council can have the same rules.

I think the scouts shouold have the freedom to decide, standard or exstended. But more so I feel that as long as they can drill axle wholes and not required to use the slots is more important to me.

As the bigger overall issue is quality, which will likely hurt the average scout over the more hard core scout racer.


I wish rules were the same through out the packs to district and then onto scout level.

While it may be fun for scouts to have the opportunity to do another car or build to different rules at each level. The main confusion increases with this and likely many parents and scouts, not making another car.

Perhaps leaving them a slight un-fairness when others more intuned with the rules and more into the racing. will build another car.

More often many will not build another car, just the die hard racers will. Unless the pack or distrcit or council offer a addtional work shops. Which I am inclined to perhaps say is less likely to happen.

Sporty
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