Restrictive and subjective rules set

[jzarvey]

A nearby council is having a PWD event that is open to everyone in the state of Michigan. I finally got pointed toward the rules and was appalled by them. I am sure they must have been written by someone with very little PWD experience.

Here is the link.

The most frightening rule to me is #17, which says doing anything to the head of the axle "will make them appear to be an unofficial part." So if I put in a K-House groove, which does not affect the performance and only aids in tuning the car, I will have an axle that appears to be an unofficial part. If it appears to be an unofficial part will the car still be allowed to compete?

[FatSebastian]

I finally got pointed toward the rules and was appalled by them.

The rule about changing the appearance of the axle head does not seem terribly egregious; I believe this is similar to the rules of Stan's Wotamalo District.

More concerning to me was this "Suggestion to Packs":

It is highly recommended that your pack use these rules as the pack rules. [...] Due to differences in scales, your pack maximum weight should be 4.9 oz or 139g. This will reduce the amount of time required during registration and will not affect the performance of the car.

With that said, I somewhat appreciate the final section which attempts to clarify what the "Check In Process" (inspection procedures) will be like. More rules should attempt that.

[Stan Pope]

The appearance of the nail head may be all that the inspector has to go on. Therefore, it is appropriate that the nail head be unaltered.

The K-groove is just one of several ways to adjust the axle orientation, even with tight hub-body clearance.

[jzarvey]

What do you think of rule 19? No alteration of the wheels allowed, not even sanding them.

[Speedster]

Those rules don't seem too restrictive. They are fairly close to our rules other than sanding of the wheels. A rail rider can be built with those rules. I would simply order 100 wheels and get to work. The gage you and your scout built per FS's instructions will be smoking by the time you're finished. FS's gage is featured in Troy Thorne's new book as well as on DT in case you haven't built yours yet. When you think about it, how many other cars do you really have to be concerned about? One. My biggest concern about this race would be if Sporty has any friends in Michigan. You'll do fine. Best of Luck.

[jzarvey]

Actually this would be a second car. Our pack uses our District rules which are here. Two totally different cars. Guess I may be talking myself into volunteering for the committee.

[FatSebastian]

What do you think of rule 19? No alteration of the wheels allowed, not even sanding them.

Given the current state of BSA wheels, 19 seems acceptable to me personally. We stopped doing anything to the tread area after the 2009 wheels came out, even though it was technically legal to polish the treads under our local rules. My main concern with that rule is that many people may not be able to resist polishing the tread, so it may result in disqualifications depending on how critical the inspectors are.

These rules seem to be geared for making inspection fast in order to process lots of cars, which is probably a good idea for a statewide all-comers race.

I endorse your strategy to build a separate car due to the differences in rules: to Gold Standard Racing!

[Speedster]

Those are the most lenient rules I have ever seen. I do wish the scouts would be able to put their cars on the track. That's a big part of the fun plus it removes the possibility of a tragic accident.

[Darin McGrew]

More concerning to me was this "Suggestion to Packs":

It is highly recommended that your pack use these rules as the pack rules. [...] Due to differences in scales, your pack maximum weight should be 4.9 oz or 139g. This will reduce the amount of time required during registration and will not affect the performance of the car.

Yeah, I'd say a better suggestion would be to encourage cars to be designed so that weight can be fine tuned at check-in time.

[Darin McGrew]

What do you think of rule 19? No alteration of the wheels allowed, not even sanding them.

Given the current state of BSA wheels, 19 seems acceptable to me personally.

That's good to hear. At our workshops, we haven't done anything to our CSB Shape N Race wheels for years. All the axles require is a little polishing.

My concern with rule 19 is the four-on-the-floor rule. Blech.

[FatSebastian]

Those are the most lenient rules I have ever seen.

Yes, IMO they are effectively the BSA Rules-in-the Box.

My concern with rule 19 is the four-on-the-floor rule. Blech.

Agree! (I just spoke to the wheel-modification aspects of that rule that jzarvey called out.)

I should also clarify re: the state of BSA wheels that some wheels are worse than others; the rules seems acceptable because it appears one is allowed to make substitutions, as Speedster suggested.

[Stan Pope]

Those are the most lenient rules I have ever seen.

Yes, IMO they are effectively the BSA Rules-in-the Box.

Interpretations of RITB vary widely ... from "any wheel mods are okay" to "light tread sanding only". And "Must use the slots as is" to "wheels may be anywhere, so long as the car length restriction is met."
And "All 4 wheels must rest flat on the track" to "Use as many of the wheels as you need." The funny thing is that each of these rule interpreters thought that he (or she) "had it right" and that their interpretation "reflected the spirit of BSA's concept."

Given this breadth of interpretations, it is difficult to compare any rule set to RITB!

[FatSebastian]

Given this breadth of interpretations, it is difficult to compare any rule set to RITB!

It may be difficult to compare interpretations, but it is not difficult to compare actual rule language (or lack thereof). I just did it, and it was easy!

[Stan Pope]

... or lack thereof ...

And there is the cruxt ...
RITB does not constrain axle locations.
RITB does not constrain wheel modifications.
RITB does not constrain axle modification.
RITB does not constrain the number of wheels.
RITB does not constrain wheel orientation.
RITB does not constrain nose shape.

The River North Pinewood Derby Rules constrain all of those.

While one might "compare" the two sets of rules, it doesn't seem reasonable to say, "(T)hey are effectively the BSA Rules-in-the Box."

[FatSebastian]

The River North Pinewood Derby Rules constrain all of those. [...] it doesn't seem reasonable to say, "(T)hey are effectively the BSA Rules-in-the Box."

Agreed! The "lenient" rules were jzarvey's Ojibway District rules that his Pack uses, not the River North Pinewood Derby Rules.