Scioto Valley Districts 2005

General race coordinator discussions.
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PinewoodPerformance
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Re: Scioto Valley Districts 2005

Post by PinewoodPerformance »

oh boy... so much to consider... and Stan, I have no idea why I numbered them 1 and 3 accept maybe I am just as odd as the numbers...

Stan, as to your first question, expanding on the best total time out of 2 races in each lane... What I mean is lets say i have a 3 lane track, each car would race in each lane twice, that way everyone races the same amount of times in the same lanes. We would add the total of the 6 races together and the the lowest times (1-3 in each of the 4 divisions, also a modified division [but they do not qualify for finals] ) would place and get awards or trophies. (3 Tigers, 3 Wolves, 3 Bears, 3 Weblos) Then the 16 lowest times total off all "stock" cars would advance to the finals where I had planned a DE tourney to place the top 4 over all.

I liked the method because it ran a completely fair race allowing all boys to get 6 runs with their car, the fastest car wins. I guess it could be left at that and be a good race. BUT I wanted to add a second set of races like a tournament, and see who the top 4 cars were overall, I realize that could be done simply by the top 4 lowest times, but it would take away the 16 top cars chance to race a few more times ( at least 2 more ).

It seemed like the best of both worlds.

Last year at our pack we had a 2 lane wood track, we took 4 boys at a time ( as they showed up they were numbered ) they each ran against each other once, their records were noted, once we got through all the heats they made 2 single elimination tournaments, one for boys who had 3 and 4 wins, one for the boys who had less, it worked out to be even. Lanes were picked by the boys and the first ones there picked their lane. we went through the brackets until the final 4 cars. We let 3rd and 4th race each other for a true 3rd and 4th place and finally 1 vs 2. It was my first pinewood derby experience since I was a scout and it was a great time, we took second. I really enjoyed the brackets, perhaps because we were winning 10 out of 11 races or what ever it was. I developed my race plan losely off of my WIRL experiences and from that Derby.
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Re: Scioto Valley Districts 2005

Post by PinewoodPerformance »

Here is the link to the way I have things currently posted, I have not sent these to the packs yet. (this page gets little traffic) I will be finalizing everything before I notify the packs of the official rules.

http://www.pinewood-performance.com/districts.htm
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Stan Pope
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Re: Scioto Valley Districts 2005

Post by Stan Pope »

At which point there will be a double elimination tournament to decide the top 4 Places. Those who lose in the semi final race will then race to decide third and fourth place.
This plan is know for accuracy problems with 3rd and 4th place, even on a perfect track.

If you have a tentative ranking of the finalists and well matched lanes, you can "confirm" the tentative ranking by racing the finalists, beginning with the lowest ranked remaining contenders. This runs rather faster than DE and relies on the tentative ranking for part of its accuracy.

This alternative doesn't work well if the tentative rankings are "goosey", i.e. multiple cars ranked different from actual. The reason is that a car can climb the in the rankings multiple spots, but each car falls in the rankings no more than one spot.

The "confirmation heats" can be either one-shot, draw for lanes. Or, the higher ranked car may need to lose two heats to be knocked out, each run on draw for lanes.
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Re: Scioto Valley Districts 2005

Post by RMoose »

davekelly wrote:There is one thing I've noticed about several posts here that discuss the pros and cons of the various elimination set ups. The concern is - does the fastest car get 1st place? An elimination type competition does not award the fastest car - it awards the car that has compiled the best win-loss record against a series of competitors.
Quilty as charged! I did get sloppy and use "fastest" as a synomym for "winning" in my post. As you rightly point out, they are not always the same thing. While speed is a very important quality of a winning car, many variables can cause the slower car to beat the faster in an actual race.

This is a valid point in considering the race format - do you want to find the fastest car or the "winningest" car? Another decision for the race coordinator!
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Re: Scioto Valley Districts 2005

Post by davekelly »

Moose,

lol Don't worry about being guilty, we all have been at one point or another!

The one thing that I find both heartening and refreshing is the fact that all of the folks posting on this topic are trying to do one thing - to determine the most accurate method of judging this event so that the boys get a totally fair race. When I consider that some parents won't even take an hour a month out of their lives to attend a pack meeting for their own son, it makes me kinda feel good that so many of you are putting in the time and effort to help a bunch of boys. I'd like to think that every boy in y'alls organizations have and will benefit from your efforts. I think that's pretty cool.

BTW: I still like the elapsed time way of judging.

Dave
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