Cars winning two trophies

[Stan Pope]

So when a car wins two awards, what do they do? Do they award one trophy for both (e.g., "2nd Place Speed and 3rd Place Design")? Do they ask which award the kid wants to give up?

I've known kids who would prefer any design award to a first place speed award. And vice versa.

I don't necessarily endorse the plan, but what our district does is have separate entry categories. This was changed in the mid 90's, a few years after my 5th grade son won a first racing and a second in unusual design

A few years of seeing a few boys carrying two or three trophies while others carried none "got to" some people.

One car may be entered for only one of the categories: racing, race car design or unusual design. Some scouts will enter cars in more than one category We judge the cars that are entered in the show events. Judges rank more than the three place trophies. The chairman holds the ranked list until completion of racing in that event. Racing place trophies take precedence (since the results are known) and the ranked list of show cars is edited accordingly. Then the trophies are awarded in a joint ceremony.

The intent was to push district trophies as widely as possible.

For unit competition, most will have the racing entry also judged for the other categories.

For district races with 50 to 100 cars in the racing pit, stopping for 20 minutes between inspection and racing isn't practical. Judging during the racing creates some problems, too. (anonymity, boys and cars coming and going, etc.) Suggestions, anyone?



The number of entries in racing tends to be greater (ten to one) than the number intered in either show category.

[Darin McGrew]

For district races with 50 to 100 cars in the racing pit, stopping for 20 minutes between inspection and racing isn't practical. Judging during the racing creates some problems, too. (anonymity, boys and cars coming and going, etc.) Suggestions, anyone?

The only regional derby I've been involved with had a single registration/inspection period before the races. IIRC, there were two tracks and four age divisions: Treeclimbers (grades 1-2), Builders (grades 3-4), Sentinels (grades 5-6), and All Comers (everyone else).

The races started immediately after the end of the registration/inspection period. The qualifying heats for two divisions took place (one division on each track), then the qualifying heats for the other two divisions. Then the semi-finals for the first two, the semi-finals for the other two, the finals for the first two, and the finals for the other two.

Design judging took place during the qualifying heats. The divisions that were not racing were being judged. The main problem with this schedule would be if a car in the first two divisions were marred or damaged during the qualifying heats.

There were plenty of trophies to go around, and no one cared whether anyone won two trophies.

[gpraceman]

There were plenty of trophies to go around, and no one cared whether anyone won two trophies.

Unfortunately, not everyone has the budget for that, so they limit the number of trophies that a racer can win to try to spread things around more. However, paper is cheap, so why not give out a lot of certificates? Also, the last couple of years, we've been able to get some prizes donated, so with these, certificates and the trophies, there end up being a good number of awards. Donated prizes and certificates are great for the design awards like Best of Show, Most Colorful, etc.

[Darin McGrew]

There were plenty of trophies to go around, and no one cared whether anyone won two trophies.

Unfortunately, not everyone has the budget for that, so they limit the number of trophies that a racer can win to try to spread things around more. However, paper is cheap, so why not give out a lot of certificates?

In addition to paper certificates, you can use ribbons (which aren't very expensive either).

The Rallye Club (see my .sig) gives out custom pins that are about 1in in diameter, and can be printed with any 600px by 600px color image. They cost us about $2 each. I could ask our awards chair for contact info.

Someone with a woodshop can turn inexpensive lumber into plaques, possibly with built-in car stands.

[Stan Pope]

The only regional derby I've been involved with had a single registration/inspection period before the races. IIRC, there were two tracks and four age divisions: Treeclimbers (grades 1-2), Builders (grades 3-4), Sentinels (grades 5-6), and All Comers (everyone else).

The races started immediately after the end of the registration/inspection period. The qualifying heats for two divisions took place (one division on each track), then the qualifying heats for the other two divisions. Then the semi-finals for the first two, the semi-finals for the other two, the finals for the first two, and the finals for the other two.

A minor difference: 5 age groups starting inspection at 1 hour intervals.
5th grade: Inspection 8-9am; Racing 9-12 on Track A
4th grade: Inspection 9-10am; Racing 10-1 on Track B
3rd grade: Inspection 10-11am: Racing 11-2 on Track C
4th grade: Inspection 11-12; Racing 12-3 on Track D
1st grade: Inspection 12-1pm; Racing 1-4 on Track A (By 12, the 5th grade cars are out of the pits and the pits are ready to receive newly inspected 1st grade cars.

Inspection for design categories is concurrent, with inspected entries impounded in a display area

Late arrivals well be put thru normal inspection; They enter racing assuming losses for any rounds they misssed. Late design entries may miss judging.

Racing entries limited to 4 per grade per pack. Design entries not limited.

Total Racing entries: about 350; Total Design entries: about 40. About 50% of the design car owners were also racing. This means a total of about 370 Scouts

Design judging took place during the qualifying heats. The divisions that were not racing were being judged. The main problem with this schedule would be if a car in the first two divisions were marred or damaged during the qualifying heats.

The judging is "blind", i.e. the owner of each car is not supposed to be known to the judges. Judging cars while the are racing is the only practical way (that I know of) to include our race entries into design judging. (I'm not against the idea; I just need to know how to do it.)

Would judges be affected by knowing which boy goes with some of the cars? If I could convince myself that this is a non-issue, then I think that I could sell the rest of the race committee to include race entries in the design judging.

There were plenty of trophies to go around, and no one cared whether anyone won two trophies.

Racing trophies 5 per grade, 25 total;
Race Design trophies 3 per grade, 15 total;
Unusual Design trophies 3 per grade, 15 total;
Race of Champions trophies: 1
Total trophies: 56

This is a ratio of about one trophy for every 13 or 14 boys entered in our derby. We don't measure up to your "plenty of trophies to go around" situation. I don't pretend to understand the psychology, but it seems that when trophies are at stake, then medals, ribbons, certificates, etc. don't carry much weight with the boys.

[Darin McGrew]

It sounds like your regional derby was quite a bit bigger than ours.

Would judges be affected by knowing which boy goes with some of the cars? If I could convince myself that this is a non-issue, then I think that I could sell the rest of the race committee to include race entries in the design judging.

I think it depends on the judges, and whether they know any of the boys in question. It's a lot easier to remind yourself that the other cars were build by kids that are just as endearing as the ones you see handling their cars, if you don't know any of them personally.

For our local derby, we have registration on Wednesday night, and the derby is Saturday night. That gives us almost 72 hours to arrange for blind, anonymous judging. Of course, this isn't an option for a regional derby.

Our derbies don't have the tradition of having the cars' owners stage them in the starting gate. We have the pit crew stage all the cars. We have the cars' owners wait at the finish gate, and then return the cars to the pit after the race.

If there is never any downtime between registration and the presentation of awards, then you don't have much choice. Either you have design judging during the race, or you don't race the cars entered in the design category. It sounds like it would take some major reworking of your schedule to fit in half an hour of downtime.

I suppose another option would be to have judging during registration. It could be blind if someone other than the car's owner carried the car to the pit area where the judging was taking place. The judges could keep updating their rankings as new cars arrived. They could be done a few minutes after registration closed.

I don't pretend to understand the psychology, but it seems that when trophies are at stake, then medals, ribbons, certificates, etc. don't carry much weight with the boys.

We've had good results in our local derby with a single first-place trophy, and medals for all the other awards (2nd-4th speed, other design awards). No, the medals aren't the same as trophies, but you can't hang a trophy around a kid's neck before taking his photo either.

If you had trophies for 1st-3rd, and medals for 4th-10th, then I can see how the medals would be less significant. I think the key is to have the trophies be just for the grand prize.

[Da Graphite Kid]

Since trophies and medals are being discussed here somewhat, I had to jump in and let you know of a comment that I heard from a Cub Scout. We awarded medals for fastest three in all ranks and trophies for fastest three in the Pack last year. Yes, the boys who won Pack level trophies also got to keep their rank level medals as well (we do not bump kids up the order when someone above them wins a trophy). The comment came from my son who took first in Webelos and Pack and was echoed by other boys as well. He said that the trophy was nice but that all he could do is put it on a shelf. But, he said; "I can wear my medal on my pocket (temporary insignia on Cub Scout uniform) or on my brag vets so I can show it off to the other boys. The boy who won second fastest Webelos and who also won the trophy for Best of Show (Cub Scouts choose ours) also liked his medal better as well. Most of the other boys liked the medals better than the trophies. It may be because they were a new item (we had not used them before) but I believe it is because they can carry them around to show off to others (without the parents panicking!).

Da Graphite Kid

[Jthompson]

This post was an excellent help to us in establishing awards for various categories. Our committee read all your posts and decided that we would award medals for the 1st 3 places in the ranks and only three trophies for the Pack. To make sure that the design awards were different, we decided to award rosette ribbons for 1st thru 6th place with several honorable mentions. In addition, we are following the advice of several in awarding a certificate in some design class for every entry.

Our top award is a perpetual plaque. We are giving this to the den or rank that has the fastest ovewrall time. We want to encourage sharing of information between parents and scouts in the dens.

One committee member suggested that we have a top individual award of sportsmanship. We need to work on this idea. If anyone has ideas on awards that foster teamwork and sportsmanship, I would like to know.

Thanks.

[Darin McGrew]

In addition, we are following the advice of several in awarding a certificate in some design class for every entry.

FWIW, those aren't design certificates. Those are participation certificates.

[Jthompson]

Thanks for correcting me Darin. You are absolutely correct. The certificates are for participation. We have tasken it one step further, however, since we are awarding 6 certificates for 1st thru 6th place design along with a ribbon for these awards. Also, we have several honorable mention ribbons to go along with this. Our committee decided to try to balance the number of design awards (ribbons) with the number of medals. Perhaps we should have offered ribbons for 1st thru 3 rd place in each rank so it mirrored the medlas we are handing out for the ranks. Maybe we will do this next year so there is an equal emphasis on design.

We are cetainly open to any suggestions on this since this is our first year.

[quote="Darin McGrew"][quote="Jthompson"]In addition, we are following the advice of several in awarding a certificate in some design class for every entry.[/quote]
FWIW, those aren't design certificates. Those are participation certificates.[/quote]

[SpinDoctor]

Our Pack award the following Design Trophies
Most Patriotic Most Unique Best Paint
Most Cubby Best Design Most Blue & Gold
Most Creative Most Time Spent Best Hot Rod
Best Theme Cubmaster’s Choice Asst. Cubmaster's Choice


1,2,3rd for Tiger,Wolf,Bear,Web(combined this year due to low number of scouts)

1,2,3rd overall Pack.

A car has never won more than 1 design award(unwritten rule), but a scout can walk out with 3 Trophies.

[zeezop]

We use the peer selection method. At registration we hand out a slip of paper where you can select your 3 favorite kars - you can not pick your own. A volunteer tallies the scores and the best design is determined that way.

Occassionally the best design and fastest car become one and the same, but it was the scouts who determined the best design so there is no reason for anyone to complain.

[Cory]

FWIW, those aren't design certificates. Those are participation certificates.

IMO, they are both.

[TDean]

Like zeezop -- we use a "peer selection" method. We race each den individually (we have 16 dens!), and halfway through the heats we gather the boys and hand them each a slip of paper. They may vote for two cars -- one MAY be for their own car, but the second vote must be for a different car. Top two vote-getters from each den display their car at the Blue & Gold Banquet where ALL the boys vote for Pack Best in Show(again, two votes -- to keep it less confusing for the lads). All den and pack level trophies are awarded at the Blue & Gold.

Back on subject -- I think if a boy (or parent/child team) has invested so much effort that they have produced a car that not only looks outstanding, but performs well too, then he should be rewarded (with two trophies). If a car wins all its races but loses a design trophy to an obviously inferior car (to spread the trophies around), what does that say to the boys about the legitimacy of the judging? (We never have that worry as the boys vote before the races are over -- and as adults, we never know which car the kids are going to go for -- creativity and craftsmanship are more subjective to a child than an adult, and we are invariably wrong in guessing which will be selected, but we can sleep well, knowing it was the boys that made the choices.)