Tips sheet handout?

How to have useful construction workshops.
Post Reply
Ricerocket00
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:16 pm
Location: York, SC

Tips sheet handout?

Post by Ricerocket00 » Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:19 pm

Does anyone know of a basic 'tips' sheet that can be handed out to the newest parent / child that can walk them throught the basics of building a derby car? I am looking for something fairly simple. My thoughts are that anyone really looking to build a speed demon will find sites like this one, maximum veolicity, etc. I am thinking more of the single mom, dad with two left thumbs, etc. Our pack will also have a construction workshop two weeks before the derby, too.



User avatar
Stan Pope
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 6888
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:01 pm
Location: Morton, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by Stan Pope » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:42 pm

Both Cory Young and I have posted such on our sites.


Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"

User avatar
Go Bubba Go
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: Northern, Illinois

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by Go Bubba Go » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:37 am

Stan:

For your tips, I take it you mean those posted at:

http://members.aol.com/stanDCmr/pwdesign.html

Pardon my ignorance, where is Cory's stuff posted?


"Who's Grandpa's neighbor?"... Phil Davis, Down and Derby

User avatar
Stan Pope
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 6888
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:01 pm
Location: Morton, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by Stan Pope » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:38 pm

Yes. That is it in a nutshell ... well, a rather largish nutshell.

Cory's work is indexed from this pack's website at http://pack146.nova.org/pinewood/ It was all there last time I looked, but I'm not getting it now, for some reason. But then my whole service is a bit degraded right now.


Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"

User avatar
Cory
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Chantilly, VA
Contact:

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by Cory » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:05 pm

Stan Pope wrote:Cory's work is indexed from this pack's website at http://pack146.nova.org/pinewood/
Well, my contact with my free ISP moved to PA several years back. My younger son is now a senior in high school. And I'm a few years removed from significant involvement with Pack 146.

All this being the case, this morning I quickly re-implemented my site in my private Cox webspace, removing most of the Pack 146 stuff and, hopefully, any dead links. All of the general info is still present. Further, I've re-connected this new version of the site to the PWD webring (I think!)

You can find it all here:

http://members.cox.net/pinehead/index.html



User avatar
Go Bubba Go
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: Northern, Illinois

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by Go Bubba Go » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:45 am

Thanks, Cory. Works great.

I remember reviewing your info at the old site in 2005, not sure exactly when it "went dark", so to speak.

Appreciate you taking the time to put the lights back on!


"Who's Grandpa's neighbor?"... Phil Davis, Down and Derby

User avatar
BigDozer66
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:26 pm
Location: Lufkin, Texas USA

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by BigDozer66 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:36 pm

Thanks for listing the help list guys. :D

BigDozer66


"one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Cubmaster and AWANA Game Director

User avatar
Stan Pope
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 6888
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:01 pm
Location: Morton, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by Stan Pope » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:01 pm

Cory wrote:
Stan Pope wrote:Cory's work is indexed from this pack's website at http://pack146.nova.org/pinewood/
Well, my contact with my free ISP moved to PA several years back. My younger son is now a senior in high school. And I'm a few years removed from significant involvement with Pack 146.

All this being the case, this morning I quickly re-implemented my site in my private Cox webspace, removing most of the Pack 146 stuff and, hopefully, any dead links. All of the general info is still present. Further, I've re-connected this new version of the site to the PWD webring (I think!)

You can find it all here:

http://members.cox.net/pinehead/index.html
WOW! It only took me a month to find this post! In the mean time, I found the new site and updated links to it from my own website! :)

Cory, I see that your kids did the same thing that mine did ... grew up! My Cub Scout (youngest of my three children) is 28 and a brand new father! Grandma and I now have 7 grandchildren. One has completed his PWD racing career and two others are in process new. :)


Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"

User avatar
Cory
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Chantilly, VA
Contact:

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by Cory » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:14 am

Stan Pope wrote:Cory, I see that your kids did the same thing that mine did ... grew up!
Yep, they grow up while we grow out. :)

The old site would go dark intermittently over the last few years, and I'd have to rattle my PA buddy's cage to get it back up. Once it even displayed a four-letter word on a 404 or some such page, thank goodness someone emailed and let me know. It was time for a change.

Congrats on the newest arrival! I assume you're already helping to get him/her ready for the Crawler Division at your local races.



User avatar
Stan Pope
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 6888
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:01 pm
Location: Morton, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by Stan Pope » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:50 am

Cory wrote:Congrats on the newest arrival! I assume you're already helping to get him/her ready for the Crawler Division at your local races.
Grandma and I got him a set of racing slicks for his hands and knees, but it will take a few months for him to "grow into 'em". :)


Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"

Ricerocket00
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:16 pm
Location: York, SC

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by Ricerocket00 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:48 am

Here's what we we ended up with:

Pack 333 ‘Tips’ Sheet
How much should I do, how much should I expect my son to do?
Tiger & Wolf: These children will probably be very interested in the car project, if you let them help as much as possible. Use the opportunity to spend some time with your child and show them the purpose for and proper use of tools. Allow the child to select the car design and assist in the construction process by handing tools to the adult. The child can also do most of the sanding, painting and applying car numbers and stickers.
Bear & Webelos I: Children of this ago are old enough to learn how to properly use hand tools. Use the project as an opportunity to teach the child basic skills. They should be able to perform all of the work on the car (with supervision of course) except those steps that involve sharp cutting edges and or adult strength.
Webelos II: These young people are old enough to build the car themselves with the possible exception of using major power tools. However, the car project gives you an excellent opportunity to coach the individual in craftsmanship and delayed gratification. Many young people want to skip as many of the ‘boring’ steps as possible and just ‘get the wheels on the car.’ They are then disappointed when the car performs poorly on the track. Instead, encourage the young person to work through the steps, helping him to understand that the more effort and hard work they put into the car, the better the result will be on the track.

Basic list of tools:
Pencil, ruler, saw (hack saw, coping saw, band saw, etc), drill (hand drill is fine), clamp or vise (for holding the block while cutting), and sandpaper.

Design
Let your child design his car. For the younger scouts you may want to assist in drawing his design on paper first. After drawing his design on paper, transfer his design to the block and start cutting & sanding. For best results use the axle slots closest to the end of the block as the back of the car.

Axle Prep
This is one of the most important steps in making sure that your son’s car makes it all the way down the track. Use a file or fine sandpaper to remove the three crimp marks from the body of the nail and the two crimp marks on the inside of the head of the nail. Start with 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper and gradually work towards finer grit sandpaper. The shinier the axles, the less friction between the axles and wheels.

Wheel Prep
You can use sandpaper to sand the wheels, but the use of a wheel mandrel (available at the Scout Store and at several vendors online) is a must for this step. Your goal during wheel preparation is simply to get rid of the ‘mold mark’ left behind during the manufacturing process. This step is tricky. Over-sanding can result in a wheel that is much slower than a stock wheel out of the box.

Paint
This is where your scout can really get involved, no matter what age. If brushing on paint, acrylics work well. They clean up with water, which is great for younger scouts. Older scouts may be able to paint with a spray can, but be sure to use proper ventilation and masks.

Alignment
You want to make sure that the car rolls reasonably straight. The easiest way is to take a flat surface (kitchen table or a flat board works well) and roll. You want the car to roll at least 4-6 feet before it starts pulling to one side or the other. You can adjust several ways, but a slight bend of the axle is the quickest way.

Lubrication
Graphite is the best way to go within our pack rules. White Teflon is allowed, but is not nearly as effective in Pinewood Derby cars as graphite is. The easiest way to lubricate the wheels is to put the axle into the wheel bore and put graphite into the wheel from the inside (the part of the wheel that will touch the car’s body). After installing the axles onto the car, have your child spin each wheel with his finger for several minutes. This will break the graphite into the wheel and axle area. You can also re-lubricate before the race, just be sure you have time to break the new graphite in too.

Weighting the body
There are a variety of materials you can use to weight the car. You want to make sure to get pretty close to the full 5 ounces allowed. Weights are available at craft stores like Michaels and at the Scout Store.


Maybe this will help someone in a similar situation in the future. Any changes or suggestions are welcome!



rdeis
Pine Head
Pine Head
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:50 pm
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by rdeis » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:30 pm

Excerpts from ours:

To the Scouts:

Welcome to Pinewood Derby Season! You have been given a Pinewood Derby Kit, this rule packet, and perhaps a foam practice block. You and Akela will use these materials to build your very own Pinewood Derby RACECAR that you will bring to the pack race. You and your car will compete both individually and as representatives of your Den against other cars and dens in the pack to see which are fastest, and which look the “best” in certain categories.

You will build the car yourself, with help from Akela as you need it. Akela will help you learn the strategies and skills that you will need to use in safely building a fast and great looking car. If you have raced before, you should get less help from Akela than you got last year.

If you like, Akela may build his or her own car (perhaps with your help?) for the Open Class race, where Akela can race against other grownups.

Your denmates are counting on you to do your best both in preparing your car for the race and in displaying Scout Spirit and Excellent Sportsmanship on race day.

Here are the requirements your car must meet when it is finished (Note to Akela, these are excerpted from the Official District Rules., which are considered final. Please refer to the district rules printed later in this packet or the Race Director for more information):

a. It will be no more than 2-3/4 inches wide at any point, including the wheels and axels.
b. The minimum width between the wheels must be 1-3/4 inches so the car will clear the center guide strip on the track.
c. The minimum clearance between the bottom of the car and the track surface shall be at least 3/8 of an inch so the car will clear the center guide strip on the track.
d. The maximum overall length of the car shall not exceed 7 inches.
e. The maximum height of the car, including any items on the car, shall not exceed 3 1/8 inches so the car will go under the automatic finish line.
f. All cars will have the standard wheel base that comes in the original Pinewood Derby Kit, and will not be extended. (Note to Akela: This is a change from previous years!)
g. Weight shall not exceed 5 ounces (141.75 grams) on the official scale at check in.
h. Wheels may be lightly sanded and polished to smooth out molding imperfections in the tread, but no other part of the wheels may be changed.
i. Axels may be straightened, sanded and polished, but may not be cut, reshaped, or modified in any way.
j. Only dry lubrication will be allowed for lubricating the wheels
k. Dead weight and non-functional decorations may be added as you see fit. No other materials except the official BSA block, wheels, and axels may be used.


Scouts, you or your Den Leader must bring your car to the Test-and-Tune/Check-in event on Friday, March 9th between 6:00 and 9:00 PM. There you will be able to test-race your car on the official track and make your final preparations to the car.

When the car is finished, you will present it to the check-in judges and they will inspect it to make sure it follows all of the rules and is ready for the race. If you pass inspection, your car will be placed in the impound where the race officials will keep it safe until after the races are over. If your car fails inspection, you will have time to fix the problems and give the car back for inspection again.

NO cars will be accepted into the race on race day, so be sure to get your car to the check-in event on Friday night.

In addition to the fastest cars, a panel of Celebrity Guest Judges will award trophies and prizes for the Most Creative Design, Most Detailed Car, and Best Paint Job.

One den will be recognized as the Leaders of the Pack in Speed, Sportsmanship, and Spirit. The den’s name will be placed on a big trophy that will be kept in the school trophy case for all your friends to see until next year. Here are some things you can do to help your den be Leaders of the Pack:

Part of the Leader’s trophy is SPEED. All of you den’s members need to build fast cars, so keeping speed secrets to yourself hurts your team. If you share your ideas for making fast cars with your denmates and work together, you can all have very fast cars.

Part of the Leader’s trophy is SPIRIT, so be sure to sit as a den and cheer for your denmates during the race! Consider making decorations for your seats or other things to identify your den as a racing team.

Part of the Leader’s trophy is SPORTSMANSHIP, so talk about what it takes to be a good sport and encourage both your own team and your opponents during the race.

Good luck to you all and DO YOUR BEST!

-- --
Race Director
-- --


To Akela:

"I wanted to devise a wholesome, constructive activity that would foster a closer father-son relationship and promote craftsmanship and good sportsmanship through competition."
Don Murphy, Founder of the Pinewood Derby in 1953

There is nothing that allows men, whether young or old, to grow and bond together quite like a shared project where both have a stake and take pride in the final outcome. Likewise, there is little that develops sportsmanship and strength of character faster than stiff competition. And no lesson is learned better than one that is infused, rather than taught, through an activity that is fun for all concerned.

Time and craftsmanship, winning and losing, all provide unique opportunities for development within the scout. A desire to make the most of these opportunities is the soul of Pinewood Derby.

All scouts are expected to build their own car with assistance from you as required for safety and instruction. The amount of assistance required is left to you to determine, keeping in mind the Pinewood Derby Promise; the safety, age, and ability of the scout; and the hope that the scout will require less assistance in each successive year racing the Derby. Stan Pope’s online book has instructions for a competitive racer that most scouts can build with very little assistance.

Down-and-Derby dads (you all know who you are) are encouraged to enter the Open Class Race, where parents, siblings, and friends of the scouts can let it all hang out in a race with very few construction restrictions. Building an Open Class car can also present you an opportunity to work with your scout using some really advanced ideas, creative thinking, and applied science- while still teaching him to stay within the rules of the race class. Rules for the Open Class race will be placed on the pack website, www.cspack225.org.

Not all scouts or parents have access to, or skills to use, some of the tools that many will be using to build their cars. In order to level the playing field, everyone is invited to attend one or more open shop sessions at the home of the Race Director. <time, date, contact info> Planning to use two short workshop sessions rather than one long one helps keep the scout interested in the project, and will likely result in a better finished product.

Additionally, some special tools may be available for checkout. No scout or parent should feel that they are specially disadvantaged by their lack of tools or experience. A wealth of help is available for the asking, just call.

Lastly, a race event is only as good as the race officials and their staff. If you would be willing to help out in any of the following areas, please call Race Director:

• Finish Judge
• Inspection and Registration
• Pit Crew
• Race Track Technician
• Master of Ceremonies
• Workshop Assistant
• Crowd Control
• Non-race activities

I hope you enjoy working with your scouts on this project as much as I do, and good luck to everyone in the race.

Your Race Duirector

General hints and tips:
Everyone should be able to make use of these tips to improve their car:

1> Heavier is (usually) faster! Try to get your car as close to the maximum weight as possible. Tungsten fishing weights are the best way to add weight. Zinc pinecar weights are also available. Some people use lead, but lead is very poisonous, so don’t use it unless you know how to handle it safely! Remember that your scales at home are probably different from the Official Scale, so plan to build it a little bit light and bring some modeling clay or other adjustable weight to check-in. Try not to get yourself in a situation where you have to drill wood out of the car on check-in day to make weight. Some tungsten and zinc will be available for purchase on shop days.

2> Friction is the enemy! The wheels, the axels, the body of the car, even the track itself are all rubbing together to rob you of precious energy. Sand and polish the wheel tread, the axel shafts and heads, and the car body where it rubs the wheels. This is best done in many steps with finer and finer sandpaper. The finer the paper, the smoother the finish. The smoother the finish, the faster the car. Auto parts stores have sandpaper up to 1500 grit or a little more. HobbyTown goes even finer. Sandpaper and tools for spinning the wheels and axels are available on shop days.

3> Keep them clean! Be careful not to get paint or glue on the wheels or axels. Consider doing all the painting and finishing before installing the wheels on the car. Some saws, paints and other woodworking and finishing tools are available on shop days.

4> Alignment is key! Wheels that are toed in or out scrub along the track like snowplow skis instead of rolling. Wheels that are canted in or out will rub more on the body and axel head (though they rub less on the track...) Make sure your car’s axels are aligned so the wheels roll straight and true. Some alignment tools and instruction are available on shop days.

5> Break in the wheels! After the car is mostly done, get some dry lube and spin the wheels by hand. A lot. This puts the final polish on the wheels and axels and works the lube into the surface so they are ready to run.

6> ANY design can be fast! Most scouts really love the look of a sleek low-slung sports car, but be aware that air friction plays a very, very minimal (perhaps even negligible) role in the race. If he wants to build a sleek car, great! If he’d rather build a bus or a tank, that’s great, too. I once saw a car shaped like a basket of flowers perform very well at a pinewood race. The design should look great without worrying about air friction, especially if you want to go for one of the design awards.

7> Don’t Drop it! Once your car is ready, running it on the ground or dropping it on the floor can ruin the alignment you worked so hard on. Keep it in a safe place until check-in, and save your pretend racing until after the Derby.


Advanced tips and hints:

For scouts that want to go to the next level, here are additional things to think about. (Note to Akela: All of these can give just a little more help to the car if done right, but none are nearly as important as the general hints and tips, and each have a possible downside. If your scout is interested in exploring these ideas, this is a chance for him to do some research about why they might (or might not) work. There is a wealth of information you and he can research on the internet, and I have a book you may borrow for an evening or two. He should only attempt to use these ideas if he understands them.)

1> Use a proper balance point. Weight at the back makes the car go faster, but may also make the car unstable and slow it down. An extreme rearward balance point can even cause the car to derail and crash.
2> Special carving and polishing around the axel hole or slot can make a big difference in speeding up, or slowing down
3> Letting more or less of the axel stick out of the car to get a wider or narrower stance can affect how the car steers itself down the track.
4> All cars will have the same wheel positions- you can not move any of the axels forward or back relative to the body to change the way the car performs. However, you may choose either end of the supplied block to be the “front” of the car, and that choice affects your balance point options.
5> Lifting one wheel off the track can save you energy—but it’s not by reducing friction, the effect is far more interesting than that! Be sure you understand why it can work, and when it might hurt you.
6> Special alignments that purposely “ride the rail” will give your car more consistent times. But ride the rail too much and your times will be consistently slower….
7> Concentrating as much weight as possible in one spot saves you a little energy as well, though how much it gains you is not clear, it could be almost negligible just like air friction. (The reason is related to #5!)



Teeeman
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1581
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:40 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Contact:

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by Teeeman » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:55 pm

A general worksheet like Stan's is the bulk answer, all of the answers are good I think...



but for a more specific answer, I usually ask the inquiree "how much time do you have to put into this today?"... and cancel my plans if they commit...

I'm a pinehead... it costs me some weekend time, but worth it...

I tailor the answer based on how much time they want to invest...


With Pinewood, when equip is donated, it boils down to "how fast you go is largely determined by how much time you have"... or maybe patience?


Same with cars only replace "time" with "money and time".

:)


-T


"I dunno..." - Uncle Eddie, Christmas Vacation

derbykid71
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:44 pm
Location: twin lake, michigan

Re: Tips sheet handout?

Post by derbykid71 » Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:13 pm

If you want to look on your own just type in something like pinewoodderby.com and you will probablly get over one hundred different web site about PWD cars. And never forget to ask all the great people on derby talk they always have great infomation on whatever there is to know about pinewood derby! :mrgreen:



Post Reply