Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

How to have useful construction workshops.
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11HP20
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Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by 11HP20 »

I'm going to volunteer to run a workshop for the pack next year. One of the things I want to suggest to the leadership is serious focus on the wheels.

I have a pro hub tool and shaver. If I were to offer to prep all of the wheels at the meeting with the boys/parents present no one would gain an unfair advantage. All wheels done by me would be prepped the same. The shaving would be limited to truing the wheel and no more. Since wheels removed from the mould while still warm end up concave I think the shaving would be fair. Those wheels would no longer be concave.

I also think telling the boys/parents about the mould numbers then allowing them to trade seems resonable. Having two decent wheels on the back as opposed to one good and one bad would help a cars time.

Of course I would cover all the normal subjects. The two ideas above are the only ideas I have that seem out of the norm. What pros and cons do you more learned in the pinewood arts see?

My objectives in the end are to see all the cars reach the end of the track and have more competitive races. I hate seeing one of the little guys taking it hard when something he worked so hard on gets killed in a race.

I do plan to make it clear I will not take anyones wheels home to work on. It happens at the meeting or not at all.
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Stan Pope
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by Stan Pope »

11HP20 wrote:I have a pro hub tool and shaver. If I were to offer to prep all of the wheels at the meeting with the boys/parents present no one would gain an unfair advantage. All wheels done by me would be prepped the same. The shaving would be limited to truing the wheel and no more. Since wheels removed from the mould while still warm end up concave I think the shaving would be fair. Those wheels would no longer be concave.
Please don't go there! It is contrary to the Scouting concept of "Don't do for the boy what the boy can do for himself." Yes, you can do it better, but that is not the point! PWD is a participation activity, not a spectator activity.

Your time is better spent providing instruction, guidance, advice and an environment in which the boys can succeed, not watch you succeed.
Stan
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davem
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by davem »

Your goals are good...get the cars down the track.

I would suggest focusing more on showing kids:
- how to add weight (providing a drill press and an adult to assist the kids with it)
- and on showing the kids how to lube the wheels / axles (table with graphite and an adult to show the kids)
- showing kids how to put the axles in the slots / holes (table with an adult who shows kids slot axle placement...maybe have a pro-body tool and drill if longer wheelbases allowed).

These are the areas we focus on in our workshops and have the most benefit for novice builders.

Wheel work helps....but it takes too long / requires too much supervision - instruction for a workshop imo.
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ohiofitter
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by ohiofitter »

If you have a drill press...you could make a jig to file each wheel down to a certain dimension....I am able to do it with a x y vise...so I don't put to much into mold matched wheels.....If you set a jig and all the wheel came out at 1 in in diameter. where is the need for mold matching...I notice that all the sites that sell 1 once wheels they say at that point the molds don't matter because there all a symmetrical circle
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Darin McGrew
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by Darin McGrew »

When we started providing drill presses at our workshops, the number of DNF cars dropped a lot. We cut off the head of an axle and just use the drill press to press the spinning axle straight into the axle slot. That helps the kids insert the axles straight later, when the car is finished.
11HP20
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by 11HP20 »

Thanks for the input guys. Davem you mention the pro body tool. To me no matter if you can use LWB cars or not you should be able to use that tool. Unfortunately we are told to use the slots that come with the car. Drilling axle holes is not allowed. The idea is to keep the more well healed from doing things other folks can't do. I don't see the argument when your talking about a $10 tool. I'm going to try to address that with the pack and district leadership.

Stan you are very right. I should be thinking about offering the use of the tool to the boys with a parent present. Thanks for steering me straight. Does anyone see a problem with wheel swapping?
"Someone got footie prints aalll overrr myyy desert." Yosemite Sam 1955
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Go Bubba Go
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by Go Bubba Go »

11HP20 wrote:Thanks for the input guys. Davem you mention the pro body tool. To me no matter if you can use LWB cars or not you should be able to use that tool. Unfortunately we are told to use the slots that come with the car. Drilling axle holes is not allowed. The idea is to keep the more well healed from doing things other folks can't do. I don't see the argument when your talking about a $10 tool. I'm going to try to address that with the pack and district leadership.

Stan you are very right. I should be thinking about offering the use of the tool to the boys with a parent present. Thanks for steering me straight. Does anyone see a problem with wheel swapping?
The Pro Body tool rocks! The most common application at our house is with the 3 year old (the real Bubba) squeezing the trigger on the portable drill while Dad guides the bit into the tool. He loves it! They work good with slots also, you just have to be a little extra careful lining it up before you clamp it down. If needed, bring along a Tiger to your demonstrate it's use to your leadership.

On that subject, given the neighborhood you're in (i.e. STL) you might be able to twist Racer X's arm and get a deal on some. Don't tell him I said that.

Only concern with "wheel swapping" (I'm assuming you mean unfinished, straight out of the box wheels) is the same one I'd have if you were swapping baseball cards, candy, or anything else among the boys. Gotta be careful you don't have some participants ending up thinking they got "shorted". I personally wouldn't, I would let the boys deal with that individually (i.e. buy a couple wheel and axle kits from the Scout Shop and match 'em up themselves).

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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by doct1010 »

11HP20 wrote: The idea is to keep the more well healed from doing things other folks can't do.
I certainly hope they are well healed before attempting any work with power tools! :lol: They could wind up un-healed again!
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Stan Pope
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by Stan Pope »

Darin McGrew wrote:When we started providing drill presses at our workshops, the number of DNF cars dropped a lot. We cut off the head of an axle and just use the drill press to press the spinning axle straight into the axle slot. That helps the kids insert the axles straight later, when the car is finished.
This is an excellent alternative to trying to drill in the slot. Get the drill a smidgen off center and the fit is too loose! However, done correctly, drilling in the slot also "tells the axles exactly where to go."

If you are working BSA axles, be sure to get it straight before trying to use it as Darin suggests! If you do, you will like the results!
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by 11HP20 »

No drill press is one of my constraints. If one of the fathers owns one and would allow the workshop to be at his place that would be nice. But I think for the average family a body tool is an easier mark to hit. What with the price of gas and all. :?

I have a few rule constraints that I'm trying to work on. When they say use what's in the box they mean it. Buying a BSA wheel and axle set would be against our current rules. We are also not allowed to touch the wheel hubs. No removing of axle bumps is something else I find goofy. As we have had a leadership change I'm hopeful some of the silly rules we have had in place can be changed.

Without harping I'll say the rules made by our past leadership didn't apply to their two sons' cars. Myself and others have noted this. Now we can have more fair races. Everyone will have a fair chance at winning. With the PWD history of this pack I really want to get this right. The boys and dedicated parents deserve that.
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by gpraceman »

11HP20 wrote:No drill press is one of my constraints. If one of the fathers owns one and would allow the workshop to be at his place that would be nice. But I think for the average family a body tool is an easier mark to hit. What with the price of gas and all. :?
You can get a drill press from Harbor Freight for only $59. They often go on sale too. A drill press is really an invaluable tool for all sorts of projects, not just Pinewood Derby. Personally, having one at a workshop I think is a must. We also make one available during check-in, for those that need to make weight adjustments.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=38119
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Darin McGrew
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by Darin McGrew »

11HP20 wrote:No drill press is one of my constraints. If one of the fathers owns one and would allow the workshop to be at his place that would be nice.
We've had a couple drill presses donated to the church. We store them in the attic when they aren't being used.

The point is, there are reasonably portable drill presses that could be transported to the workshop, rather than requiring the workshop to be where the drill press is.

But do check around. There's a good chance that someone has a drill press they could bring to the workshop.
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by dna1990 »

Darin McGrew wrote:When we started providing drill presses at our workshops, the number of DNF cars dropped a lot. We cut off the head of an axle and just use the drill press to press the spinning axle straight into the axle slot. That helps the kids insert the axles straight later, when the car is finished.
Gosh I have read that several times now, but I can't see what you are describing.

The goal is to insert a axle into a slot (vs drilled hole)? So one axle gets its head cutoff and chucked in the drill (basically a shaft at this point). And it spins, then you hold the car up to it and use it to press another axle into the slot? Sorry I am being dense.


Or is this just to make a pilot hole? In which case, why not use a #44 bit?
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by Darin McGrew »

Darin McGrew wrote:When we started providing drill presses at our workshops, the number of DNF cars dropped a lot. We cut off the head of an axle and just use the drill press to press the spinning axle straight into the axle slot. That helps the kids insert the axles straight later, when the car is finished.
dna1990 wrote:Gosh I have read that several times now, but I can't see what you are describing.

The goal is to insert a axle into a slot (vs drilled hole)? So one axle gets its head cutoff and chucked in the drill (basically a shaft at this point). And it spins, then you hold the car up to it and use it to press another axle into the slot? Sorry I am being dense.

Or is this just to make a pilot hole? In which case, why not use a #44 bit?
Yes, the spinning axle is used to press a pilot hole into the slot. Later, the actual axle will fit nicely into the straight pilot hole, and the initial alignment will be much better than we usually see without using the drill press.

I don't know what size drill bit would match our axles. (We don't use BSA kits.) But since every case of kits comes with several spare wheels and axles, we have enough extra axles that we can sacrifice a couple for the drill presses.

In addition to the alignment advantages, I think pre-pressing a pilot hole also helps avoid splitting the wood when you mount the wheels on cars that don't leave a lot of wood around the axle slots.
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Re: Workshop idea. Your thoughts please.

Post by 11HP20 »

Darin McGrew wrote:
11HP20 wrote:No drill press is one of my constraints. If one of the fathers owns one and would allow the workshop to be at his place that would be nice.
We've had a couple drill presses donated to the church. We store them in the attic when they aren't being used.

The point is, there are reasonably portable drill presses that could be transported to the workshop, rather than requiring the workshop to be where the drill press is.

But do check around. There's a good chance that someone has a drill press they could bring to the workshop.
Good idea. I'll mention that when I talk to the pack leader tonight. I'm getting the process started now so I have plenty of time to get this right.
"Someone got footie prints aalll overrr myyy desert." Yosemite Sam 1955
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