Advice on Workshop

[MathGuy]

I am running our workshop tommorrow. The goal of the workshop is not to finish the car, only to get wood cut, and then let the families bring the car home to finish.

I am assuming that weight schemes is not something that most parents have prepared for, so I am going to have a default plan for parents to use quarters for weights, and drill some 1" wells into the car. They can use other weight schemes, but I want the custom scheme to be used by all.

We are planning on having the following stations. To be followed in this order.

0. Instructions Station (What to do at workshop and at home)
1. Design Station. (Pencils, rulers, spare wheels, ziplock bags, etc.)
2. Axle Drill Station, (Using Max V Pro-Axle tool). Optional.
3. Weight Sink Station - Drill Press to 1" bit to drill weight sinks to put quarters in for weights. If parents have other weights they want to use, that will be fine, but for the new parent/boy, I can't think of a better idea for the amatuer masses.
4. Power Saw Stations - We have a band saw and a table scroll saw for cuts. We will have saftey googles.
5. Weigh In- Digital scale with quarters so that boys have an idea of how many quarters they will need to add.

Parents and kids can sand the car, attach the weights, and paint the cars at home. I know that there is so much more that can be done, but but the goal is not to finish the car, just get the most difficult stuff done for the folks who don't have the equipement.

Any suggestions?

[TDean]

Good luck with your workshop -- my $.02, is the only problem I foresee with this type of round-robin approach where you move from station-to-station progressively, is that you may have a lot of people waiting in line. We had over 40 people at each of our workshops (two consecutive days) and there is no way they could have been accomodated this way. One solution, of sourse, is to have more of everything (more drills, more band saws, etc) but that is not always possible or practical. Or assigning specific times for a family or den to get in line.
Have you thought about this potential problem? Any good solution?

2. Axle Drill Station, (Using Max V Pro-Axle tool). Optional.

Do you mean the Pro-Body tool for drilling holes into the block? Or the axle tool for straightening the axle?

[Cory]

...I foresee with this type of round-robin approach where you move from station-to-station progressively, is that you may have a lot of people waiting in line.

We bring two drill presses to our workshops, one for axle holes, the other for weight holes. Folks are not allowed to change the bit or adjust the platform on the axle hole press. Like you, we have a standardized weight scheme which helps minimize fiddling with the other press. This keeps the inevitable lines moving more quickly.

One dad brought a belt sander this year which helped a lot! Even with a palm sander, sanding is slow enough that folks will queue up.

Although our workshops are supposedly "free-form", they end up flowing almost exactly as you have yours planned.

[Darin McGrew]

I am running our workshop tommorrow. The goal of the workshop is not to finish the car, only to get wood cut, and then let the families bring the car home to finish.

We have a series of workshops (the first is still a few weeks away). The goal of our first workshop is for everyone to get their block cut to the basic shape (design, drill press axle holes, cut on band saw, sand block). Our blocks come with pre-routed slots for weight, so only the unusual cars need to do anything specific for that. The goal of our second workshop is for everyone to get their cars weighted, primed, and painted. The goal of our third workshop is for everyone to get their wheels and axles ready, and to apply the last coat of paint. The following Wednesday is registration (with lots of help for mounting wheels and axles for those who haven't done so already), and the following Saturday is derby night.

I am assuming that weight schemes is not something that most parents have prepared for, so I am going to have a default plan for parents to use quarters for weights, and drill some 1" wells into the car. They can use other weight schemes, but I want the custom scheme to be used by all.

Just out of curiosity, how many quarters does it normally take to get a car up to 5.0oz? We have a gunsmithing crucible that an adult uses to add molten lead to the pre-routed weight slots, but it would be nice to have a good alternative that doesn't involve molten lead or buying expensive weights at the hobby shop.

0. Instructions Station (What to do at workshop and at home)

We do this at the derby kick-off where we hand out the kits. I've made a series of oversized blocks showing different stages of completion. They're very helpful for explaining the process to anyone (child or adult) who hasn't built a derby car before.

4. Power Saw Stations - We have a band saw and a table scroll saw for cuts. We will have saftey googles.

Don't forget ear plugs. You can buy the small foam ones in bulk fairly inexpensively.

[Darin McGrew]

One dad brought a belt sander this year which helped a lot!

The bench sanders are some of the more popular tools at our workshops. They're great for kids to shape their cars after an adult has cut the basic outline on a band saw.

[Stan Pope]

Since you asked, here's the coin specs based on small sample:

The diameter of a quarter is 0.951", and quarters weigh in at 0.20 oz. 5 quarters per ounce. Cost per ounce: $1.25.

The diameter of a nickel is 0.837", and nickels weigh in at 0.175 oz. 5.71 nickels per ounce. Cost per ounce: $0.29.

The diameter of a penny is 0.749", and pennies weigh in at 0.09 oz. 11.11 pennies per ounce. Cost per ounce: $0.11.

The pennies are a snug fit in a 3/4" hole and are, by far, the least expensive. I'll leave the quarters for the "high rollers."

[MathGuy]

Thanks on alll the input.

Stan, Those measurements surprised me. (I have learned never to doubt the accurancy of anything stan writes) I didn't drill the 3/4" but my eyeballed penny-to-bit measurement told me that it was going to be a bit small. Now I will have to drill to see if one can get a penny in a slot with 1/1000" clearence. A snug penny will work better than the loose quarter. I will check that out tonight.

... I checked>> Fits fine, but... My Drill Press just isn't big enough for to drill a 3/4" bit from the side all the way through the car. I am going a 15/16th bit is seaming to work for a quarter on the top.

Yes, On Pro Body Tool, Maybe Max V should have called it the "Pro Axle Hole tool". (Say that 4x fast. ). Actually I find pro Body tool better than my drill press holes.

[MathGuy]

Wow, we got it done. We got allot of cars cut and shaped. Like allot of workshops, every family helped is absolute a joy.

Knowledge Gain.

1. I think I needed to hand out printed instructions on how to build a car. Generally speaking most people agree that the station order list above is the best way to build a car, too many guys skipped the axles, and weights, cut the car first, then thought about how to get the car up to weight.
2. My Pro Body tool is ruined. To many people were way too loosy and goosy with it and the nice snug fit that bit had is gone. MaxV get's more business. I will probably bring my ruined one next year(for people that ask for it), but I am going to save the one I have for my boys cars.

3. We used a 15/16" bit to drill in quarters. Pennies would have been nice, but my drill press wasn't tall enough to drill it in from the side, (Just a quarter inch too short.)

4. Next year, I hope to locate a drill press that can drill 3/4" for pennys on the side.

5. Interesting we had one father break both the band saw blade, and the table scroll saw blade. He was gooood. (We had spare blades.):wall:

[Stan Pope]

I checked>> Fits fine, but... My Drill Press just isn't big enough for to drill a 3/4" bit from the side all the way through the car. I am going a 15/16th bit is seaming to work for a quarter on the top.

Okay,

Here's a couple more numbers that may be useful ... again based on a small sample (the change in my pocket!) Note to Terry... these are all US coins... I don't have any Canadian coins to measure and, besides, you can probably do a better job of measuring them anyway!

If you are weighting with quarters, a hole 1/3" deep holds one ounce.

If you are weighting with pennies, a hole 5/8" deep holds one ounce.

A typical car body (width 1.75") can easily hold two "penny holes" drilled vertically side by side, but only one quarter hole, and the two holes together amount to the same weight as a similar depth quarter hole!

Personally, I would drill these from the bottom and lock them in place close to the bottom of the car with a bead of hot glue.

So, even constrained by your short press, I'd weight with pennies.

[MathGuy]

If I was working with my son and his car, I would go with the pennies. (If we had to choose.) But since we had to work in a production line with a short time frame on a workshop, I thought there was more room for error they tried to go 2 wide on the pennies. Two .75" holes in 1.75 space is a very easy for a patient and semiskilled pinewood derby parent, but I thinking patient and semiskilled would not be guarenteed by all our workshop participants. So I chose the quarters for the masses.

Next year I really want to go horizontal with the pennies though with a taller drill press.

[clemsontigerfanatic]

Thanks for the info
I am going to do my first workshop with our Bear Den this weekend.
So far only 3 boys. That may be a good thing. Going to try for only 1 to
1 and 1/2 hrs. With me and one other dad it should go ok.

[clemsontigerfanatic]

Everything went well yesterday. 2 hours flew by.
Only had 3 boys and there parents. They were Bears . 2 out of the 3 had
not done Pinewood Derby before.

I took BALOO training last summer. I've probalbly forgotten 90% of what they said. One thing one of the last speakers said off handely is that he had not truely learned something until he shared it. That really stuck with me. More dads need to help the single moms and other rookies with these workshops. Its what scouting is all about.

[Jthompson]

We are conducting our first workshop this Saturday. I mean our first ever...first derby...first workshop!

I need help with drilling the axles into the grooves. It seems I need a drill bushing with the drill press in order to not bow the #44 bit. The bit wants to wander going in.

I noticed that Stan Pope drilled a pilot thru a brass($) plate to create a drill bushing. Has anyone else come up with a viable solution.

I have turned the block over and drilled the holes first then cut the slots. This produced a straight hole and great alignment from the start. I have also used and will be using a pro axle tool. This produced reasonable results drilling the slots.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[nosam116]

Your workshop sounds like it went well.
I know from my two workshops, by setting the time ie 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., we would have teams come when ever and it made for a good work flow for each station.
Our first workshop was simply: 1. Design; 2. shape cutting (either me on bandsaw or kid/parent with coping saw); 3. sanding; 4. axl prep (basic filing).

[Pack11SanDiego]

Hi Gang,

We have been using some 1' long concrete spikes from Home Depot cut into 1" lengths for weight.

They are about 1/4" in diameter, and 3 of them set side-by-side in the rear come pretty close to 5 oz. gross.

It's a little tricky to drill the holes with a hand drill, but I would imagine a drill press would be very easy.

We close them up with bondo and move right on to shaping.

Best Regards,

Mark M.