liability and the use of power tools at workshops
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:37 pm
I have researched this topic on Derby Talk and have found a lot of discussion, but no definitive answers. So I am starting this new thread in hopes of getting useful input.
The issue is about the use of power tools by scouts at PWD workshops and the liability should someone get hurt.
Our pack has never had a workshop where a car can actually be built in the workshop. This year we want to have this kind of workshop – actually build the cars in the workshop. It will be a “first”. The purpose of the workshops are to provide the parent/scout team with the resources and expertise to build a car, feel good about it, learn something, develop skills, and enjoy time together.
The pack wants to conduct the workshops at the den level (i.e. a separate workshop for each den). This year there will be a special prize for “fastest den”. The idea of the prize (and the den level workshops) is to promote cooperation within the den, have parent/scout teams share car building skills and knowledge, share speed tricks, attenuate/eliminate the secrecy surrounding car building, try to give each den the feeling they are a member of a den team, and give them an opportunity to win a special prize that all den members can be proud of. The workshops will be conducted at the private residence of a former den leader in his garage.
The workshops will not be part of den or pack meetings. They will be separate from and independent of any den or pack meetings. The workshop safety rules (at the moment) are: (1) safety glasses shall be worn at all times while in the workshop, (2) power tools are only to be operated by a knowledgeable adult, and (3) no horseplay or loud noises. Other safety equipment (gloves, ear protection) will be provided.
One member of the PWD committee (member A) has argued that:”all scouts should have hands on for all aspects of building the car…Council and BSA do not allow scouts to use power tools…therefore no power tools in the workshop…Cars should be cut out and built completely by hand”.
Another member of the PWD committee (member B) argued that: “the purpose of the workshop is to provide resources and expertise so the parent/scout team can build their car…the workshop should provide those resources, including power tools (scroll saws, drills presses, band saws are available to use)…the parent/scout team should make the decision about whether the scout actually uses a power tool at the workshop…if the decision is to use power tools at the workshop, the workshop safety rules apply…only a knowledgeable adult can use power tools…the parent or another adult will cut the car and/or drill holes in the car as needed with the scout watching…the scout will participate in all other car building activities... the BSA prohibition on use of power tools by scouts is still valid and upheld”.
Member A then argues that the scout is not participating in all car building aspects and that defeats the purpose of the pinewood derby.
I am the PWD committee chairman for this year, and as such, I am caught in the middle of this argument. The issue is about the BSA policy of not allowing scouts to use power tools, and the liability of workshops coordinators should someone get hurt.
I have considerded running the workshop with no power tools at all. Blocks will be cut be hand; holes will be drilled with a pin vise; axles will be polished without a drill. I am not sure how much fun this kind of a workshop will be, but it can be done. Question: Is this worth doing?
I have considered putting the decision about power tools use in the hands of individual parents, but the criticism of that parents' scout not participating in all aspects of pinewood derby bvuiolding stills remains.
I am asking the Derby Talk community to provide input on what you think is fair, equitable, and legal in this situation; what is the right thing to do?
So I have some questions for the derby talk community:
(1) Is liability for workshop coordinators an issue if the workshop is being held at a private residence? Particularly if the owner of the residence says it is OK for the den and den scouts to use power tools at his house?
(2) Does anybody in this community know how to resolve the argument between committee member A and B?
(3) Does anybody in this community have a definitive WRITTEN statement about what BSA allows and prohibits at PWD workshops with regard to power tools?
The issue is about the use of power tools by scouts at PWD workshops and the liability should someone get hurt.
Our pack has never had a workshop where a car can actually be built in the workshop. This year we want to have this kind of workshop – actually build the cars in the workshop. It will be a “first”. The purpose of the workshops are to provide the parent/scout team with the resources and expertise to build a car, feel good about it, learn something, develop skills, and enjoy time together.
The pack wants to conduct the workshops at the den level (i.e. a separate workshop for each den). This year there will be a special prize for “fastest den”. The idea of the prize (and the den level workshops) is to promote cooperation within the den, have parent/scout teams share car building skills and knowledge, share speed tricks, attenuate/eliminate the secrecy surrounding car building, try to give each den the feeling they are a member of a den team, and give them an opportunity to win a special prize that all den members can be proud of. The workshops will be conducted at the private residence of a former den leader in his garage.
The workshops will not be part of den or pack meetings. They will be separate from and independent of any den or pack meetings. The workshop safety rules (at the moment) are: (1) safety glasses shall be worn at all times while in the workshop, (2) power tools are only to be operated by a knowledgeable adult, and (3) no horseplay or loud noises. Other safety equipment (gloves, ear protection) will be provided.
One member of the PWD committee (member A) has argued that:”all scouts should have hands on for all aspects of building the car…Council and BSA do not allow scouts to use power tools…therefore no power tools in the workshop…Cars should be cut out and built completely by hand”.
Another member of the PWD committee (member B) argued that: “the purpose of the workshop is to provide resources and expertise so the parent/scout team can build their car…the workshop should provide those resources, including power tools (scroll saws, drills presses, band saws are available to use)…the parent/scout team should make the decision about whether the scout actually uses a power tool at the workshop…if the decision is to use power tools at the workshop, the workshop safety rules apply…only a knowledgeable adult can use power tools…the parent or another adult will cut the car and/or drill holes in the car as needed with the scout watching…the scout will participate in all other car building activities... the BSA prohibition on use of power tools by scouts is still valid and upheld”.
Member A then argues that the scout is not participating in all car building aspects and that defeats the purpose of the pinewood derby.
I am the PWD committee chairman for this year, and as such, I am caught in the middle of this argument. The issue is about the BSA policy of not allowing scouts to use power tools, and the liability of workshops coordinators should someone get hurt.
I have considerded running the workshop with no power tools at all. Blocks will be cut be hand; holes will be drilled with a pin vise; axles will be polished without a drill. I am not sure how much fun this kind of a workshop will be, but it can be done. Question: Is this worth doing?
I have considered putting the decision about power tools use in the hands of individual parents, but the criticism of that parents' scout not participating in all aspects of pinewood derby bvuiolding stills remains.
I am asking the Derby Talk community to provide input on what you think is fair, equitable, and legal in this situation; what is the right thing to do?
So I have some questions for the derby talk community:
(1) Is liability for workshop coordinators an issue if the workshop is being held at a private residence? Particularly if the owner of the residence says it is OK for the den and den scouts to use power tools at his house?
(2) Does anybody in this community know how to resolve the argument between committee member A and B?
(3) Does anybody in this community have a definitive WRITTEN statement about what BSA allows and prohibits at PWD workshops with regard to power tools?