Building a PC

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gpraceman
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Re: Building a PC

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Darin McGrew wrote:Just out of curiosity, why did you build your own system, rather than buying a complete system? Did you want an atypical configuration that wasn't available as a complete system? Or was it just for the fun of building it yourself?
Sporty pretty much covered it. I basically felt that I could put together a better quality and performing system than one off the shelf and that it would last me longer. I think also that over time I will be able to more easily upgrade the system, even changing out the motherboard if need be, instead of just getting a new system and junking the old one.

I could have paid much less for a system that would meet my basic needs now, but later would likely end up feeling like a slug (like my current computer). I have looked around at off the shelf systems with similar capability and I do think I saved a bit of money. Though, it isn't quite an apples to apples comparison, since some of the off the shelf computers come with stuff that I didn't want or I picked some better quality/performing components for my system.

That and I think it is a rather fun exercise in picking out the components that would work well together and ones that closely meet my needs. I got the speed I was looking for, back side ports that I wanted, convenient front ports that I need, something that is easily expandable, a case that looks really cool, and so on.

I also learned quite a bit that I didn't know about the hardware side of things. It seemed rather daunting at first, that is why I initially was looking to get a kit to start from, but the more research I did on components, the more I felt comfortable in piecing it all together. The info from Stan and Sporty helped. I also spent a lot of time IM'ing Randy Underwood, an electrical engineer friend of mine (and a Derby Talk member), getting advice and insight on components and compatibility. He built a system recently and that's what got me started on thinking about building my own.
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Re: Building a PC

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Well, I got most of it together over the weekend. I had to order a couple of adapters so I can connect the case fans direct to the motherboard. Asus provides a utility to manage the fan speeds for the CPU cooler and two case fans. I was rather surprised that Micro Center didn't have the correct adapters. Turns out they are not so easy to find, but I did finally find an online source.

I also ordered a serial port to fit into one of the PCI slots. While I could use a USB to Serial Adapter to test out my software with serial timers, I like just leaving a cable plugged into the back of the computer, I then just hook it up to the timer when needed.

My only other problem was with the CPU cooler. The included thermal paste was a sticky goo that would not spread. So, I cleaned it off and picked up some other stuff at Micro Center. The new stuff was much easier to apply and has really good reviews.

I wish I had gotten a power supply with a modular cable system, but those were a bit more expensive. I have several unused cables that I need to bundle up and zip tie out of the way. I'll do that once I have everything installed.

So, hopefully at the end of the week I have this system fully together.
Randy Lisano
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Stan Pope
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Re: Building a PC

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Good progress!

You should be fine with the usual CPU cooler ... since I run "wall to wall" 100% CPU load, the cooler included with the CPU is really sensitive to dust accumulation, resulting is higher fan speeds and higher CPU temps. I put a bulkier cooler on my 9950 last night. The downside was that I had to pull the MB, since the new cooler bolts through the MB! But, it works well. We'll see after a couple months how the temps and fan speeds hold.

I've used Arctic Silver for thermal conductivity, although for this new cooler, I used what they supplied. Arctic Silver says to put a spot about the size of half a pea on the center of the CPU, then press the cooler down evenly to cause the goo to spread ... I think that it avoids air pockets that way. For this cooler, I purposely spread the goo as they instructed. Hope I didn't put in too much! :)
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Re: Building a PC

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Stan Pope wrote:You should be fine with the usual CPU cooler ... since I run "wall to wall" 100% CPU load, the cooler included with the CPU is really sensitive to dust accumulation, resulting is higher fan speeds and higher CPU temps. I put a bulkier cooler on my 9950 last night.
I was a bit concerned about that processor generating heat, so I got the better cooler. This system will fit inside my desk cabinet, so it will not have as good of ventilation than leaving it out of the cabinet. The cabinet does have a rather large opening in the back, so it is not totally closed off.
Stan Pope wrote:I've used Arctic Silver for thermal conductivity, although for this new cooler, I used what they supplied. Arctic Silver says to put a spot about the size of half a pea on the center of the CPU, then press the cooler down evenly to cause the goo to spread ... I think that it avoids air pockets that way. For this cooler, I purposely spread the goo as they instructed. Hope I didn't put in too much! :)
I got the OCZ Freeze compound, which is supposedly a bit better than Arctic Silver 5. I put 3 rice grain sized blobs on the top of the CPU, based on the manufacturer's recommendations. It is supposed to spread out on its own. Why they don't include instructions with this stuff I'll never know. I had to dig this up from the reviews on NewEgg. Same was true with the stuff that came with the new cooler. They even skipped over that step on their video install instructions.
Stan Pope wrote:I put a bulkier cooler on my 9950 last night. The downside was that I had to pull the MB, since the new cooler bolts through the MB! But, it works well. We'll see after a couple months how the temps and fan speeds hold.
The cooler was easy enough to mount, since I didn't have the motherboard installed yet. This one also has a bracket that goes on the back of the motherboard. Trying to retrofit one of these to an already assembled system would be a bit of a pain.

Well, looks like I wasted my money on those fan wire adapters. Fortunately, they were very inexpensive. Looking at the two case fans themselves, there are only two wires hooked up. So, there is no speed monitoring. The case does have a simple speed control knob on the front panel, so I'll just use that to control those two fans. I did buy a 3rd fan, for the front panel. This one does allow for speed control and monitoring. So, the CPU fan and the front fan will be controlled by the motherboard.
Randy Lisano
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Re: Building a PC

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gpraceman wrote:Why they don't include instructions with this stuff I'll never know.
Mostly it is use by professionals that just toss out the manuals anyway... they are just saving the expense of having stuff printed which raises their profit margin... I tossed out 30 some manuals last night at work, some of them 30 odd pages long, right out of the box straight into the trash. But you didn't really want to know, did you? :O
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Re: Building a PC

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I've got this system to successfully post. It seems to recognize the HDD, DVD/CD drive, and all of the RAM (only installed two sticks so far). All fans are working. CPU temp leveled off at 33degC.

I also updated the BIOS with the latest version. They provide a nice utility within the BIOS for updating via a USB flash drive, so that part was a snap.

Now, all I need is an OS to load into it before I can go any further. I've got to resolve an issue with Microsoft first for their partner program, so I can get the licenses that I need for Vista, Outlook, Office, Visio and others.
Rod Turnbull wrote:Mostly it is use by professionals that just toss out the manuals anyway... they are just saving the expense of having stuff printed which raises their profit margin... I tossed out 30 some manuals last night at work, some of them 30 odd pages long, right out of the box straight into the trash. But you didn't really want to know, did you? :O
For this stuff, it would only take about 3 or 4 sentences. That could easily be put on the packaging at least. Well, thank goodness for the Internet for us noobs.
Randy Lisano
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Re: Building a PC

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Anyone try Ubuntu? I was thinking of giving it a try, so I can test out this system, until I can get my licensing issue resolved with Microsoft.
Randy Lisano
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Re: Building a PC

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gpraceman wrote:Anyone try Ubuntu? I was thinking of giving it a try, so I can test out this system, until I can get my licensing issue resolved with Microsoft.
My not-so-geek daughter thinks it is great, at least for her LegoTeam Robot programming!
Stan
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Re: Building a PC

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From Wikipedia: Goobuntu is a Linux distribution based on Ubuntu that Google uses internally.

I like it.
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Re: Building a PC

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I downloaded Ubuntu and burned it to CD. I can run it straight from the CD (which I did) or by running the installer. Seems hard to believe that you can run an OS from a CD, including being able to have a browser, office suite of apps, email, games, and so on to use. With Microsoft bloat, no way. Everything checks out so far.
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Re: Building a PC

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Well, Randy, I spent last evening putting my 2nd Q9550 together. By midnight, it was starting to churn out work. All looks well ... temps good, process times good. Productivity is about 30% greater than that of similarly loaded Q6600 boxes! :)

Now I gotta run some Cat-5 because it is the 1st of a new cluster of boxes that will live in the corner of the guest bedroom. I like to deposit these things in groups of 4 because of the desire to use inexpensive KVM switches ... displays, keyboards, and mouses (mice?) occupy too much footprint, not to mention attracting too much dust!

Another job left is to figure out how to get the RAM access up from 800 to 1066MHz ... I know "where" to do it" but not exactly which ratio(s) to tweak to get it to work, and which are "safe" to do without frying the CPU! That would add a few percent (less than 30%, but probably more than 10%) to those boxes productivity, and I based the component selection on cost / productivity with the RAM running at 1066.

I've had the parts gathered for a couple of weeks, but I used them as motivation to do some other things that needed to be done. One of those jobs was getting an older box "straightened out" ... it was failing, apparently due to heat, at full load. Didn't know if it was CPU temp or PS temp or what. CPU temp seemed most likely, but the CPU Cooler had been installed in such a way that the release lever was blocked by the PS, making "try this" a kinda big deal. Anyway, Thursday I disassembled the PS far enough that I could release the cooler. With the cooler out of the box, I could blow from an angle that I had not been able to reach before ... blew out some major dust bunnies! Reassembled (with the cooler rotated 180 degrees), and the box has been stable at full load since. :)

Now I need to find a "right angle" tube for the can of gasduster so that I can blow dust from the right direction! I shouldn't have to take the cooler off to clean the bunnies out! :(

The productivity of that box is only 1/4 that of the 9550, so "Maximum Production" logic says that I did the wrong box first. But I'd been putting off risking the older box. Carrot!

The net from this flurry of activity is that my total capacity is up to about 79 GFlOps, according to the Whetstone benchmark (161 GIOps, according to the Dhrystone benchmark.)

Remember when "corporate computer centers" were measured in MIPS? I was there for those IBM sales pitches! :)
Stan
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Re: Building a PC

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Stan Pope wrote:Well, Randy, I spent last evening putting my 2nd Q9550 together. By midnight, it was starting to churn out work. All looks well ... temps good, process times good.
What temps are you running on your Q9550 systems, at idle and running CPUs at max load? I'd be interested to see how my system compares.

I'm still waiting on MS to fix the problem that I've been having trying to enroll in their partner program, so I have yet to get this system loaded with Windows. I did go ahead and do an install of Ubuntu, instead of just running it from a bootable CD. This way I can do some more system testing. I still need to check out the new serial port card I installed and external eSata drive (for backups).

I'm actually writing this post from the new system, using the FireFox browser (don't know why I didn't give this browser a try earlier - much nicer than IE or Opera).

================================
Edit:

Had to dig around a bit to find a terminal program that would run on Linux, but once I did, the serial port checks out fine.

The external drive also is working fine. I look forward to using this for backups. The transfer of data over USB with my old external drive seemed very slow. With the eSata interface, this one should be much faster.

Ran a CPU stress test. Temp got up to only 37C. Idle was 32C. So, the CPU cooler and case fans seem to be doing a good job.
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Re: Building a PC

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gpraceman wrote:
Stan Pope wrote:Well, Randy, I spent last evening putting my 2nd Q9550 together. By midnight, it was starting to churn out work. All looks well ... temps good, process times good.
What temps are you running on your Q9550 systems, at idle and running CPUs at max load? I'd be interested to see how my system compares.

Ran a CPU stress test. Temp got up to only 37C. Idle was 32C. So, the CPU cooler and case fans seem to be doing a good job.
Never run 'em at less than 100% for long enough for temps to drop! Sorry!

At 100%, i.e. all 4 cpu's running tail out, ears back:
The new one in a cooler room and sitting alone on a table top is running 42-43 C.
The older one in a warmer room and nestled between two other "hot" boxes is running 46-48 C.
The cpu cooler fan doesn't start revving up until 50C, so these are temps at "fan idle".

Any info on a "right angle tube" for blowing dust out of the cooler fins? :)
Stan
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Re: Building a PC

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Stan Pope wrote:Never run 'em at less than 100% for long enough for temps to drop! Sorry!

At 100%, i.e. all 4 cpu's running tail out, ears back:
The new one in a cooler room and sitting alone on a table top is running 42-43 C.
The older one in a warmer room and nestled between two other "hot" boxes is running 46-48 C.
The cpu cooler fan doesn't start revving up until 50C, so these are temps at "fan idle".
How many fans are in your cases? My case has a front, rear and side fan, so there seems to be plenty of air flow.
Stan Pope wrote:Any info on a "right angle tube" for blowing dust out of the cooler fins? :)
Sorry, you might need to make up something custom. Maybe get some of that small diameter metal tube and try to bend an elbow into it. You would probably have to put something flexible inside the tube, like wire, to keep it from collapsing while you bend it. I think MaxV's Maximum Hobby site carries some of that tubing.
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Re: Building a PC

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gpraceman wrote:
Stan Pope wrote:Never run 'em at less than 100% for long enough for temps to drop! Sorry!

At 100%, i.e. all 4 cpu's running tail out, ears back:
The new one in a cooler room and sitting alone on a table top is running 42-43 C.
The older one in a warmer room and nestled between two other "hot" boxes is running 46-48 C.
The cpu cooler fan doesn't start revving up until 50C, so these are temps at "fan idle".
How many fans are in your cases? My case has a front, rear and side fan, so there seems to be plenty of air flow.
My normal desktop has 3 fans: PS, Case and CPU. The two latest PC's have a solid side case and a large front-side filter to (hopefully) keep the bunnies out! Air c omes in the front and out the back. If I were really clever, I'd figure a way to keep the exhaust air under better control ... to warm my bride's feet in the winter and warm the squirrels in the summer.
gpraceman wrote:
Stan Pope wrote:Any info on a "right angle tube" for blowing dust out of the cooler fins? :)
Sorry, you might need to make up something custom. Maybe get some of that small diameter metal tube and try to bend an elbow into it. You would probably have to put something flexible inside the tube, like wire, to keep it from collapsing while you bend it. I think MaxV's Maximum Hobby site carries some of that tubing.
Since the tubes that I have are plastic, I'll first try gentle heat to see of I can get one to bend "gracefully."
Stan
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