Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell you !

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sporty
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Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell you !

Post by sporty »

I have gotten some e-mails and questions lately.


So i'll share what I know.

I may or may not have contributed to this design change in this area. A year or so ago, see one of posts in regards to colors wheels before they came out.


At that time I spoke with one of the designers, builder of the revamped molds for the new wheels.


We talked about many things. i am not sure who all else they spoke with or what influence or not that I had. So i'm not taking credit. But I can share some of the conversation i had back then.


1- one of the goals for the new wheels was to make it easier for the average scout to have a better car. most scouts on average do not do all the extra work that many of us seasoned racers and seasoned scouts do.

Less than 20% of the pack actually take the time to do axle prep and or bore work.


So when we had a conversation, one of the things we spoke about was the issue of axle grinding and damage to the wheels, from the lack of burr free axles.

So one of the suggestions we spoke about was reducing the axle friction, by recessing the bore, so that no deburred axles would perform better.


Now, yes for us die hard racers, this is a slight draw back, in what we view as a tad loss of peformance.

But to the average scout, this is a gain in performance and a plus.


The same went for the talk of coned hubs, many scouts on average did not do this. So this was also something talked about with the new wheels.

The average scout would not have to do this and they do not typically do it anyhow. So it was to help level the playing field some.

The same with the o.d and lighter wheel. To give more performance and a better wheel then the past wheels. To aid in a better car for the average scout.

Now i know some of the die hards will correct or adjust to what they are looking for per there rules.

But on a whole on the average this will out performs the old wheel, in the stock non modified form. Especially with using axles out of the box and not doing anything to them, like most scouts who do a car.

So the changes and design change was based with that in mind for the average scout.

Sporty
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Re: Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell you !

Post by pack529holycross »

It will be interesting to see the effect that the new wheels have on "prepped" wheel sales from 3rd party Vendors... I.E. wheels and axles for $24 approx. Additionally, I would think that this increased " out of the box " wheel performance data would INCREASE the likelihood that scouts would pop for $8 or $9 prepped axles and just forgo that entirely painful, time consuming task anyways...


I look forward to any sales data relating to how these new wheels will affect vendor orders.

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sporty
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Re: Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell you !

Post by sporty »

Hard to say on sales.

But In the past 8 years, I see very little of the prepped stuff at scout pack level.

only 20% due the added extra work to the wheels and axles.


but this can very from one pack to another.
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Re: Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell you !

Post by Davhamm »

Personally, That's to bad.

I think those who do additional work on their cars should get the reward of seeing a big improvement. Its easier to get the kid to work on the car if when they just put it together and push it it rolls a foot and stops. Maybe a more realistic example. Kid pulls car kit apart puts wheel on axle spins wheel stops in 5 seconds. Kid polishes axle or works on hub, puts wheel on axle spins wheel spins for 30 sec kid is excited to see a big improvement and eagerly and happily works on his car.

If an out of kit car is only going to lose by a 1/4 car length to a car that has had 3 hrs work, it will make it harder to get the kids to want to work with dad on their car and isn't spending time with the kids one of the points?
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Re: Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell you !

Post by Fatdaddy »

I think one of the big draws is it allows more kids to be competitive, even if they don't have the tools or means to get tools to build a competitive car. I think the kids who always do well will continue to do well, because they put in the time and effort, but these new wheels allow those who may not be handy or have access to the necessary tools to close the gap a little bit.
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Re: Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell y

Post by dstory »

I like the idea of kids who do more working doing better.

I am not in favor of the kid whose dad spends the most money on extra gear winning the race. That violates the intent and spirit of the whole deal.
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Re: Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell y

Post by sirslotalot1 »

dstory, I think I might have to disagree with you here. If you mean purchasing "extra gear" as in polished axles and polished and/or lightened wheels, then I would agree.

But if you mean the extra tools that make a PWD faster, then I do disagree, respectfully.

I look at the additional tools as a way to teach my son more. How to direct his young little mind in the direction of exactness, small increments of measurement, how to get a better result thru better tools. I want him to think technicaly, something the shcools do not teach. I want him to expand his mind and have it reach into depths it has never reached before by thinking on how best to improve his car.

I would have him polish his own axles and prep his own wheels, or as much as he can for his age. By not using PWD specific tools, or other tools to fit the need, this will limit him.

Just MHO.
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Re: Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell y

Post by kevinrevin »

Sporty, if the BSA plan was to make the un-prepped wheel/axle sets more competitive with those that are prepped, then they did a good job.

At our recent Test & Tune, we had one scout whose car was tuned to a best time of 2.53x seconds, (we then learned his axles were untouched - only added graphite during tuning) he was only .02x slower than the 2 fastest cars. The fast cars had after-market multi-groove axles (with the same leaders/adults assisting with the tuning).

For the average scout, the new wheels will surely get them closer to the winner's circle, but there is still an advantage for the ones who do the extra work to properly prepare their axles & wheels.
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Re: Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell y

Post by sporty »

kevinrevin wrote:Sporty, if the BSA plan was to make the un-prepped wheel/axle sets more competitive with those that are prepped, then they did a good job.

At our recent Test & Tune, we had one scout whose car was tuned to a best time of 2.53x seconds, (we then learned his axles were untouched - only added graphite during tuning) he was only .02x slower than the 2 fastest cars. The fast cars had after-market multi-groove axles (with the same leaders/adults assisting with the tuning).

For the average scout, the new wheels will surely get them closer to the winner's circle, but there is still an advantage for the ones who do the extra work to properly prepare their axles & wheels.


Yes, For those that do little to no prep work, like removing the burrs on the axle head, the step on the hub was put into play to try and help factor in that many scouts do not do all that kind of prep work, On average it's also a better wheel from the older wheels and styles.

It has given a better and faster car to the many scouts who know little of what to do. Allot less cars these days do not finish the track. In fact I think this past race, I seen all finish the track.

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Re: Recessed wheel bore on the new wheels ! why ! ill tell y

Post by pinecarpro »

I think the wheels help even the field a little but its all relative. It helps the kid who puts the time in and has a good car from the kid that just bought good stuff and doesn't know how to use it. now get rid of the all 4 wheel touch rule and it will help more!

Pinecar
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