Are you ridiculed on the track? Looked at, and suspected?

[RRS73]

I experienced the same thing with my Tiger Cub son last year. He came in 1st for Tiger Cubs and 2nd for the pack. He went on and got 4th place at district for Tiger Cubs. I had several Pack parents come to me and say, "You did a great job". As if I built the car without any of my son's participation.

His car was running well. So well that the Webelo that "owned" the pack races in his years got nervous, along with his father, as my son's car was racing. Said Webelo still got 1st place by a hair.

I simply don't let it bother me. I informed the parents this year that I would love to conduct a workshop if there is interest. No one chimed in. I offer hints and tips whenever asked. I have tons of experience from my days in scouting as a youngster.

[Nitro Dan]

... I informed the parents this year that I would love to conduct a workshop if there is interest. No one chimed in. I offer hints and tips whenever asked. I have tons of experience from my days in scouting as a youngster.

People often have to see the proof in the pudding before they will accept something. Don't ask if there is interest, just tell them this is when and where you are having the workshop. That's pretty much what I had to do. On my first workshop only eight out of fifty racers showed up, but when those eight boys wound up in the top ten fastest cars for the pack, people saw that they would have to start coming to the workshops if they wanted to compete. The next year I had twenty show up out of fifty and within four years, I was getting forty eight out of fifty. It might be slow to start, but in the long run it will pay off and become the norm.

-Nitro Dan

[rpcarpe]

Sound advice Dad.
That's what I'm seeing 'round here with my own workshops.
Had a team show up last Thursday, drilled good axle holes, cut a good shape, planned for good COG.
They didn't show up for Friday axle polish etc...
Saturday they raced.
Took Second overall, they did their own axles by hand, and weren't allowed to modify the wheels.

They'll be helping at next years' workshops. I'm recruiting next years' coaches from this years' crop of successful teams.

[Ignacious]

Absolutely. 2 years ago was the first time that either me or my son had ever touched a PWD car. We were so clueless that we built the car backwards with the short side to the front. But I read some books, watched some videos and apparently did a good enough job with wheel and axle prep and weighting that we won FOP. No harm, every one was actually quite congratulatory because I am not a leader and it's usually the leaders kids that take the big bling.

Next year was the last year for the Cubmasters oldest son and it was well known that he was shooting for the FOP. He didn't get it. We won again. However there was an issue that I found troubling. The Monday before the race the Cubmaster went over the rules again with the scouts. Our car was built but we were heavy and rather than dig weight I decided to shave the front of the car so we were at 6 5/8". I didn't think there was a problem as the rules say the car cannot exceed 7". My son brought this shaving to the attention of the Cubmaster and the Cubmaster said that unless it was 7", he would not be able to race his car. My son was devistated. We rechecked the rules and there was no such minimum length so we shot the Cubmaster an email asking to clarify and by Wednesday we realized we would not get an answer. The boy was in panic mode and I felt the Cubmaster was trying to move the goal posts to eliminate what he felt was his son's main competitor. I assured my son we could do this in 3 days. So we did a ground up rebuild in three days. The ironic thing was that the original car would not have won. My son did 90% of it and while it was competitive it was not a winner, I just didn't tell him that. He won FOP the year before with me doing most of it, it was time for him to learn how to lose. But when the Cubmaster did this, I was determined to build a car that ran like a scalded dog. And it did.

Then on race day there was another issue. Our rules state that the FOP is determined after all the dens raced and times recorded. The fastest car wins and it was done this way as long as anyone could remember. But on race day my son was first and the Cubmasters son was 2nd within a few hundredths of a second. At which point, on the fly the Cubmaster goes around to the leaders (my wife became one the 2nd year) and explained that the times were so close, would we have a problem with a final four race off? We agreed knowing our son was the only scout in that final 4 with anything to lose but as we were the previous year winner, we didn't want to look like selfish jerks. The final four included a scout that did not win his den so theoretically a scout that didn't win anything could win FOP in a final four if by chance the true FOP according to the written rules (my son) jumped the track. When it came time to hand out trophies, usually the 1st,2nd and 3rd are awarded from each den and then the FOP is announced separately. But when my son went up for his den award, the Cubmaster said, "Oh and XXXX also won FOP, here you go." The wife and I thought it was a bit of a backhanded sour-grapes insult.

By our third year we had this feeling there was a target on our backs as the Cubmaster sent my wife a "for your eyes only" email stating "some parents" were complaining that I was building my son's car for him because of here say and rumor and things I'd said about his attention span that had been misconstrued. We were told be sure to make sure our son can answer who built the car in case of any disputes. Regardless of the well known fact that the Cubmaster's father builds his two sons cars. So once again, I was more than willing to let my son lose until I got this passive aggressive guilt trip semi-threatening email. Then I went into scalded dog mode again. The results were not even close. My son's closest competitor was his younger brother. One of the other boys was almost .2 seconds behind. But this year again, regardless of the spread, with nothing in the rules to qualify it, HE made the decision on the fly to have a final 4 race that was not documented in the rules. The only difference this time was that he didn't bother consulting any leaders. My wife was going to protest and I stopped her because again as back to back winners we would look like jerks. I assured her I had enough confidence in the build that this was just prolonging the inevitable. Let the car do the talking. And it did. The trophy ceremony went as it should. Except for the very end where the Cubmaster "jokingly" said that we were building a dynasty and that it was up to the rest of the pack to step up and take us out.

It bugs me because parents complaining is one thing, but when the Cubmaster is using his position to move goal posts and paint a target on your back, it's something else. Bad part is that still, as winners, we would look like jerks complaining about it so my only choice at this point is to stay in scalded dog mode and video document everything and instill in my boys not to be angry but proud. If this is what they have to do, you've already won.

[Scrollsawer]

Ignacious,

We've won 'Pack Overall Winner' the last two consecutive years, and a couple of parents have made snarky comments, which we've just laughed off. We've also taken to taking pictures of our boys building their cars and posting them to Facebook where Pack parents, and Pack leadership (including our Cubmaster) can see the boys' progress on their builds. This has really shut down those snarky comments .

Sounds like you got yourself a real gem of a Cub,aster on your hands. Just remember that it's a job that few people are willing to step up to do for so many boys, so for that reason alone, he probably deserves some modicum of appreciation. HOWEVER...there's no way that he should be modifying the race day rules on the fly. Sounds like you guys need to re-write the Pack's race rules to stop this behavior.

Good reading. Thanks.

Scrollsawer

[FatSebastian]

...with nothing in the rules to qualify it, HE made the decision on the fly to have a final 4 race that was not documented in the rules. The only difference this time was that he didn't bother consulting any leaders.

The decision to conduct a run-off rather than go with "fastest time" seems like one that is probably good for the event in general, because timers are not 100% reliable, and it is hard to argue against seeing more racing! I therefore wondered whether the Cubmaster made "the decision on the fly" the second time, because the Pack Committee ("leaders") might have already decided in advance to reinstate a run-off? (Local rules don't always explicitly state how the winner will be determined, but instead focus on specifications for the car and/or how problems with the car will be handled.)

I would suggest that you and/or your wife take on a leadership role within your Pack if you do not already. Get involved in the Pack committee. Volunteer to help conduct a derby construction workshop, be an inspector, or ask to become the race coordinator / Trackmaster. It might not take the target off your back, but it may result in fewer people wanting to take aim at it.

[gpraceman]

I was determined to build a car that ran like a scalded dog.

Then I went into scalded dog mode again.

Twice you indicated that you jumped in to make your son's car win. If your son is not doing more and more of the car build each year, then I do think that you are overdoing the adult participation part of this project.

Have you thought about hosting the workshops? Then the adults in your pack can see your son actually working on his car. Of course, you can be helping pass on construction tips and help raise the level of competition in your pack. I would think that would be a win-win for everyone.

[resullivan]

I don't think he is saying he built the car. I think what he is saying is he was going to let his son build most of the car with little help with the expectation that it would not win.

[TXDerbyDad]

My kids and I got the wind knocked out of our sails after the Pack race when my wife relayed to me overhearing a few parents complaining "Flat cars are cheating. It takes no effort to build them." While I beg to differ, I hate the association. My kids did all the work on their cars except cutting them out on the bandsaw.

[FatSebastian]

"Flat cars are cheating. It takes no effort to build them."

That's a new one! It reminds me of the story of the district chairwoman who outlawed putting extra wheels on a car because it "gave more speed"!

[TheJep]

We have never lost a race and we feel the haters every year. Today we started the build for my middle son's last car and we talked about how the haters will try to "get us" once again.

Last year was fun. I made a video of my son helping build the car and we made a QT code that launched the video. We turned the barcode into a decal on the back of the car with a label that said "scan me." The haters would scan the code on their smartphone and then start a video that opened with my son saying "if you're watching this video it is probably because I just beat you in the Pinewood Derby with this car. I'm tired of people saying that I cheated or that my dad did it all so this year I made a video to show how I helped build this car..."

Loved the sheepish looks. No accusations last year.

Here's the link tone video:
http://vimeo.com/75163689

This year we are doing fenders and hope to finish his pinewood career in style.

I went from feeling bad about the haters to embracing it and it is a blast......

[birddog]

I've never had anyone confront me to my face, but I suspect there are folks who think the Dad does too much of the work or that we cheat in some fashion.

I started a video last year, but ran out of steam. I like how you kept your video to the length of a song. I felt ours getting way too long. I may try it again this year and edit it down to fit a song.

You are more brave then I am when it comes to working on the band saw. I still haven't let my son help me on that tool yet. He does the drill press work and the scroll saw work, but I won't let him on the band saw even with my help while he is a cub scout. Just not willing to risk it. I tell all the parents that I do the work with the dangerous power tools, so I'm not hiding it.

Birddog

[gpraceman]

You are more brave then I am when it comes to working on the band saw. I still haven't let my son help me on that tool yet. He does the drill press work and the scroll saw work, but I won't let him on the band saw even with my help while he is a cub scout. Just not willing to risk it. I tell all the parents that I do the work with the dangerous power tools, so I'm not hiding it.

I'd be more willing to let kids help on the cutting with a band saw, if there was a jig to hold the block and keep fingers (adult and kid alike) away from the blade. There's a product idea for someone willing to take that on.