Hello all,
Newbie with very few woodworking skills here. Just finished by first PWD. Bought the book Speed Secrets bu David Meade. I followed most of the tips but my car was not built just for speed. We glue legos on top of it so it looked like a Star War v-wing fighter. Won scouts favorite but it was not fast. I have just started skimming this site and the material is much more complicated than anything in the Meade book. I need to read up just to comprehend the posts. Any books you might suggest.
Thanks,
Noskills
Reference book
Reference book
"Nunchuk skills... bowhunting skills... pinewood derby skills... Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills!"
Napoleon Dynamite
Napoleon Dynamite
Re: Reference book
You don't have to do everything all at once. 
I started with some basic axle preparations and learning about where to put the weight. With just those two things you can often make fast cars, and they don't have to be flat or wedge shaped. If that's good enough, then stop there. If not, then read more about the "rail rider" techniques and about raising one of the wheels. If that's good enough, stop there, otherwise read about polishing the inside of the wheel bores. And so on.
Part of it depends on who you're racing. If you're up against someone that avidly reads this site and applies each and every technique, then it's going to be tough to win a first place trophy. But for me it's more about making a car that was fun to make and look at and making a decent showing for time than anything else.
I started with some basic axle preparations and learning about where to put the weight. With just those two things you can often make fast cars, and they don't have to be flat or wedge shaped. If that's good enough, then stop there. If not, then read more about the "rail rider" techniques and about raising one of the wheels. If that's good enough, stop there, otherwise read about polishing the inside of the wheel bores. And so on.Part of it depends on who you're racing. If you're up against someone that avidly reads this site and applies each and every technique, then it's going to be tough to win a first place trophy. But for me it's more about making a car that was fun to make and look at and making a decent showing for time than anything else.
Re: Reference book
Noskills wrote:Hello all,
Newbie with very few woodworking skills here. Just finished by first PWD. Bought the book Speed Secrets bu David Meade. I followed most of the tips but my car was not built just for speed. We glue legos on top of it so it looked like a Star War v-wing fighter. Won scouts favorite but it was not fast. I have just started skimming this site and the material is much more complicated than anything in the Meade book. I need to read up just to comprehend the posts. Any books you might suggest.
Thanks,
Noskills
It takes time, and this forum is about asking questions, about things you do not understand and we are here to help you.
The goals you set are what we try to help you with, once you decide what you have in mind.
Winning and going super fast, that goal alone, has to rule out fancy car shapes and designs.
If you try and compromise and want a little of both, that can be done also, with perhaps a goal of a 2nd or 3rd place trophy.
But the more you learn, the better understanding you will have about everything.
Feel free to pm me and I will help you along, over the following months to come.
I help many people, so if you disappeare for awhile. I likely will not remember what we all talked about.
Just keep in mind, everything is connected.
Axle wholes, alignment, weight placement, how much weight you use, versus the wood.
You start with the basics, before you dive into Rail riding and ect.
Again, happy to help you out. Just get intouch with me.
Sporty
Re: Reference book
Welcome to Derby Talk! 
I too started with David Meade's book about four years ago.
There are a number of outdated/further proven ideas and techniques.
FS outlined most of them: http://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php? ... ake#p58629
I enjoyed the deeper science and approach from Doc Jobe.
His lectures begin http://www.pinewoodderbyphysics.com/
If you like his lectures, you might want to get his book. Lots to look at and read.
Good Luck
I too started with David Meade's book about four years ago.
There are a number of outdated/further proven ideas and techniques.
FS outlined most of them: http://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php? ... ake#p58629
I enjoyed the deeper science and approach from Doc Jobe.
His lectures begin http://www.pinewoodderbyphysics.com/
If you like his lectures, you might want to get his book. Lots to look at and read.
Good Luck
My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.
-
Shawn Stebleton
- Master Pine Head
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:20 pm
- Location: Monroeville, PA
Re: Reference book
Get a ball bearing the size of a marble. (You'll use it later for when you get a board for aligning the car so you can verify the slope is level side-to-side. The ball needs to roll straight down.) We called those "steelies" when I was a kid. Have your son hold out his palm just above a couch cushion. Hold the steelie about an inch above your Tiger's palm and drop it. Ask him to remember how much speed (force) it had when it hit his hand. Repeat if necessary. Then drop it from two or three feet above into his palm. Ask him if it had the same speed (force), or was it less, or more. He hopefully will tell you that it was more. If his palm hit the cushion only on the higher drop, he may notice it.
This demonstrates to him that the higher up a mass (the steelie) starts when it drops, the faster it goes at the bottom. The higher his car's mass is at the starting gate, the faster his car goes. The center of mass of the car (like the center of the steelie) needs to be higher up the ramp, and therefore towards the rear of the car (maybe 1 inch or a little more in front of the rear axles is a good starting point.) Work with him in understanding the relationship between the steelie drop and the car drop down the ramp and the energy they have.
Ask him about a see-saw (aka teeter-totter). He probably knows a lot about it. Have him imagine twins sitting on opposite ends. Have the board start with twin A down and twin B up. Ask him how much force is needed to move it so twin A is now up and twin B down. Then have both twins sit as close to the middle as possible, so they are next to each other on opposite sides of the pivot point. Again, start with twin A's side down. Ask him how much force is needed now to move twin A's side up. If he has two friends about the same size that are willing to help, have them sit on the ends of the see-saw and then at the middle and have your son actually move them to see how difficult or easy it is, relative to the other position of the kids.
This demonstrates the rotational forces needed to rotate the car from the sloped starting gate to the flat. Since gravity is the only force that can be used to rotate it, it would make sense to make the most mass as possible be near the pivot point (rear axle). This will preserve as much gravitational energy as possible from the transition and that energy can be used for speed.
Those two experiments describe some of the principles of physics, without using math. Most kids will understand it easily. Translating it to a Pinewood Derby car might take some work, but most will get it. My younger son understood both of those when he was a Tiger.
These experiments are better than books at his age. And more fun.
When he "gets it" with the above experiments, he will most likely start asking more questions and will be eager to learn. And his interest in Pinewood Derby will grow.
This demonstrates to him that the higher up a mass (the steelie) starts when it drops, the faster it goes at the bottom. The higher his car's mass is at the starting gate, the faster his car goes. The center of mass of the car (like the center of the steelie) needs to be higher up the ramp, and therefore towards the rear of the car (maybe 1 inch or a little more in front of the rear axles is a good starting point.) Work with him in understanding the relationship between the steelie drop and the car drop down the ramp and the energy they have.
Ask him about a see-saw (aka teeter-totter). He probably knows a lot about it. Have him imagine twins sitting on opposite ends. Have the board start with twin A down and twin B up. Ask him how much force is needed to move it so twin A is now up and twin B down. Then have both twins sit as close to the middle as possible, so they are next to each other on opposite sides of the pivot point. Again, start with twin A's side down. Ask him how much force is needed now to move twin A's side up. If he has two friends about the same size that are willing to help, have them sit on the ends of the see-saw and then at the middle and have your son actually move them to see how difficult or easy it is, relative to the other position of the kids.
This demonstrates the rotational forces needed to rotate the car from the sloped starting gate to the flat. Since gravity is the only force that can be used to rotate it, it would make sense to make the most mass as possible be near the pivot point (rear axle). This will preserve as much gravitational energy as possible from the transition and that energy can be used for speed.
Those two experiments describe some of the principles of physics, without using math. Most kids will understand it easily. Translating it to a Pinewood Derby car might take some work, but most will get it. My younger son understood both of those when he was a Tiger.
These experiments are better than books at his age. And more fun.
When he "gets it" with the above experiments, he will most likely start asking more questions and will be eager to learn. And his interest in Pinewood Derby will grow.
Shawn
Re: Reference book
Drop a weight into a kids' hand... I've been doing that for years now.
I also use the teeter-totter to explain not only rotational forces, but COG.
I also use the teeter-totter to explain not only rotational forces, but COG.
My wife started a new support group... Widows of the Pinewood Derby.
