Proving a point

General topics of interest to racers and race coordinators alike.
Post Reply
jcp420xx
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: Holtsville, NY

Proving a point

Post by jcp420xx »

My son's cars have always done very well and we have come up with some intricate designs over the years. My kids have always been very hands on in the builds and this year I've only helped when two sets of hands were needed (still giving plenty of advice though). However, there are always those who think that I must have built the cars for them (or bought them which is extra nuts considering the unique nature of our builds).

Now that my older son has aged out and as my younger son is in his final years, I'm thinking of building my own car that I would run against the finalists just to show how much faster our cars would go if it was only me building them.
User avatar
Vitamin K
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:26 pm
Location: Spotsylvania, VA

Re: Proving a point

Post by Vitamin K »

One guy here took video of his kid working on the car and posted it online. Then he linked it with a QR code, which he put on the kids' car, so that the disbelievers could see for themselves.

Thought that was a unique possibility, anyhow.
TXDerbyDad
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:04 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Proving a point

Post by TXDerbyDad »

Been there, done that. Now I have my wife take photos and video of us building our cars. I am a firm believer that building the car for the boy robs him of the experience, even more so than just buying a car. It tells the Scout dad doesn't think his work is good enough.
User avatar
Scrollsawer
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: DFW Metroplex, TX

Re: Proving a point

Post by Scrollsawer »

I thought the guy who did the QR code on the car was pretty funny.

Here's the point that I think many many parent miss when it comes to the Derby.

I see so many parents who think (wrongly in my opinion) that the Scout should build the car all by themself. ~The Pinewood Derby was originally designed to be a way to get dad's and their Scouts together for some quality time, when the task of building a bigger soapbox-type racer was not feasible~

I define 'father-son' time, in this case, as working together on the project. Not handing over the entire build to the boy. I see cars that arrive to the race where the boys did all the work. I have no problem with that. However, it puts that boy at a competitive disadvantage with those kids who worked extensively with their parents during their builds. Plus, not all families share the same level of interest, competitiveness, anal-retentiveness, wood-working skills, general workshop tool skills, Derby race history (e.g., Tiger 'build teams' versus Webelos 'build teams'), etc. That's where the playing field becomes unbalanced, and people notice the disparity in the cars design, build quality, etc.

So where does one draw the line at what constitutes a 'level playing field'? Is this an answerable question? I don't know. I personally would like to see Cubmasters consistently (and effectively) communicating more about the Derby's intent, and what is expected from both Cub and parent. It's not a consistent message that's being conveyed from Den-to-Den, much less, Pack-to-Pack, or Council-to-Council.

Until then, snarky comments, and eye rolling by other parents will continue.

Scrollsawer
"Laugh a while you can Monkey Boy."
User avatar
FatSebastian
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 2803
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:49 pm
Location: Boogerton, PA

Re: Proving a point

Post by FatSebastian »

:welcome:
jcp420xx wrote:I'm thinking of building my own car that I would run against the finalists just to show how much faster our cars would go if it was only me building them.
I agree with others that the better approach is to document your sons' involvement via photos and video. Regrettably, racing your own adult-built car would not prove that you did not build your sons' cars, because one is still free to presume that you built them all but kept the fastest one for yourself! Conversely, one might adult-build a slow car to "prove" that the adult doesn't know how to build a fast car, so the speed must be all the boys' doing! ;)

Either way, as Scrollsawer says, some parents will question... :glare:
TXDerbyDad
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:04 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Proving a point

Post by TXDerbyDad »

Scrollsawer, I couldn't agree more. I was specifically meaning a dad who built the car himself for his Scout. I have no problems helping my boys, but I do not want to do all the work for them, and prefer a more advisory role.
User avatar
Noskills
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:37 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: Proving a point

Post by Noskills »

I snapped a few photos of my daughter building her car but none of my son. I don't feel the need to justify that he made the car with my help. I get looks and snarky comments like "when will you let your kids build one". But my son and I know who did what. Us DT parents have more knowledge and skill to share with our kids but it doesn't mean that we did a greater proportion of the work. I do everything involving the bandsaw but I started my son on the drill press. We design together. I set up the axel and wheel prep (dremel, paper polish etc) but he does the work. He paints. I will admit to putting on the decal as my son really wanted to straight. We tune together.

As you may have seen in our line up I did build a car and put in all the bells and whistles I could. Yet I think there is a fair chance either or both my my kids could beat me.

Noskills
"Nunchuk skills... bowhunting skills... pinewood derby skills... Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills!"
Napoleon Dynamite
Speedster
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1972
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: Proving a point

Post by Speedster »

That's what you get for putting all those Fancy Paint jobs on those cars. I like my scout to put stickers on his car and then peel a couple of them back so they look like they're falling off. That way the inspectors feel sorry for him and help him glue them back on. They forget about inspecting the car.
Rukkian
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: West Des Mones, IA

Re: Proving a point

Post by Rukkian »

To my knowledge, nobody has ever made comments about me building one of my son's car, but who would they complain to, as I am always the commissioner, and do most (~75%) of the work for setting up the derby by myself.

I have run derby workshops in my Dad's garage the last couple of years, and 2 years at our old pack at another parent's house. I am willing to freely give any information I know that somebody wants to hear, I don't keep any secrets. I was very proud of my older son this year, he is aged out of Cub Scouts and is currently a Star scout in Boy Scouts, but he took the time (7 hours) at the workshop to show each and every kid that wanted to know how to polish axels and wheels, and was there guiding them throughout the process. I think this may help to show what my boys can do.
TXDerbyDad
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:04 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Proving a point

Post by TXDerbyDad »

Speedster wrote:That's what you get for putting all those Fancy Paint jobs on those cars. I like my scout to put stickers on his car and then peel a couple of them back so they look like they're falling off. That way the inspectors feel sorry for him and help him glue them back on. They forget about inspecting the car.
Not me. I actually look for those types of distractions and give them extra attention. 8) All our cars go down a checklist of things to inspect for.
Jcampbell924
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:49 pm

Re: Proving a point

Post by Jcampbell924 »

Rukkian I would like to give cudos to your son for helping the other boys. I have never had anyone say anything about our cars either even when my youngest son was racing in the more adult centric open division. We enjoy doing the builds together. The design, fabrication, tuning is all done as a father son team. The boys even participate in some of the bandsaw work. I grew up the son of an Industrial Arts teacher so passing some of these types of wood working skills onto them is 99% of the fun. We even get my dad in the mix and work in his shop. The boys love the race don't get me wrong but if we walk away with 1st or we walk away last it's all the same. It's a plastic trophy but that build was what they will remember. Lol and come to think of it I have never taken pics of the builds just the finished cars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Using Tapatalk
Rfieldbuilds
Journeyman
Journeyman
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:58 am
Location: Santa rosa, ca

Re: Proving a point

Post by Rfieldbuilds »

This is funny. There are always those parents that haven't the skill, time, tools or knowledge to help their own kids to do their best. I have always guided my kids beginning with design and helping them throughout the process.

This last year at a commission meeting, a parent looked right at me and said 'well it's not exactly a fair race, since some people are melting metal and pouring it into their cars'. I took this standing up, and replied to her that this year we would not be "melting metal" we've abandoned "melting metal" and advanced to using depleted uranium from a Russian source. This got a chuckle...and helped my relationship with the parent. I hosted the workshop this year and did spend some extra time with her sons, one who got a third place win.
User avatar
Vitamin K
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:26 pm
Location: Spotsylvania, VA

Re: Proving a point

Post by Vitamin K »

Kinda off topic, but I was surprised when I learned that tungsten had a higher density than uranium(!). Not only that, but it's got one of the highest melting points of all known metals. Probably has some effect on how expensive it is... :roll:
Rfieldbuilds wrote:This is funny. There are always those parents that haven't the skill, time, tools or knowledge to help their own kids to do their best. I have always guided my kids beginning with design and helping them throughout the process.

This last year at a commission meeting, a parent looked right at me and said 'well it's not exactly a fair race, since some people are melting metal and pouring it into their cars'. I took this standing up, and replied to her that this year we would not be "melting metal" we've abandoned "melting metal" and advanced to using depleted uranium from a Russian source. This got a chuckle...and helped my relationship with the parent. I hosted the workshop this year and did spend some extra time with her sons, one who got a third place win.
Post Reply