Rattling car

General topics of interest to racers and race coordinators alike.
not so fast
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Rattling car

Post by not so fast »

I have a question I hope somebody can help me with. My son's pack had their derby race this weekend. There was a car there that blew everybody away. This car had a metal on metal rattle as it ran down the track. It didn't seem to be plastic on metal as the wheels would be on the axles. Any of you guys know possibly what this would have been? There was a lot of talk among the parents in attendance wondering if this was something possibly against the rules. Nobody could decide if it should have been protested or not.

Also I have seen in some rules from other packs where they mention that loose weight materials in the body are a common rule violation. What would be the advantage of having something like this?
User avatar
Noskills
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:37 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: Rattling car

Post by Noskills »

Could the wheels have had barrings? Possible that there was a metal washer or bushing? Loose weighs have no advantage. I am sure the rule is for safety.
Noskills
"Nunchuk skills... bowhunting skills... pinewood derby skills... Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills!"
Napoleon Dynamite
User avatar
Stan Pope
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 6856
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:01 pm
Location: Morton, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Rattling car

Post by Stan Pope »

Usually, a noisy car gains nothing from its noise, and sometimes loses some energy. The exception is if the noise arises from the release of stored energy, e.g. a wound up spring. Yes, something might just have been loose.

Regardless, inspection is over. The car passed inspection. Under most rules (all sane rules) the result stands.
Stan
"If it's not for the boys, it's for the birds!"
not so fast
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Rattling car

Post by not so fast »

I was asking mainly for our district race that is coming up. I know that car will be there. The car was illegal in the pack race but our leader wouldn't DQ it. Long story. That was a visible violation. Nobody really knew what to look for on the rattling.
Speedster
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1972
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: Rattling car

Post by Speedster »

Welcome to DT, not so fast.
Do you have a picture of this car? You say, "blew everybody away". He beat everyone by a car length? 3 feet? What kind of track do you race on? Aluminum? Wood? What was the visible violation?
not so fast
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Rattling car

Post by not so fast »

Beat the 2nd place car by 1.5 car lengths. We race on a wood track. It had offset wheels. The rules stated in 2 different places that wheels must be directly across from each other.
Speedster
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 1972
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:48 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: Rattling car

Post by Speedster »

The 1 1/2 car length is not all that unusual. He sounds very competitive and perhaps others are not. If he is running an extended wheelbase, 3 wheel railrider, oil, with excellent bore prep, axle prep, etc., I can see how he could easily be that far ahead of a "basic" scout car. I don't know if off setting a wheel is any advantage but if it is against the rules it should have been stopped by the inspector. It probably will be stopped at the District race but I don't know if changing the position of a wheel is going to slow this scout down. If you go to the district race would you please take a picture of this car. I'd love to see it. Keep us posted.
not so fast
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Rattling car

Post by not so fast »

The 2nd place car wasn't a "basic" scout car. It too, had an extended wheel base. The wheel bores were polished, axles were grooved and polished, 3 wheel rail rider, COM 1/2", wedge car. All legal by our rules. Dry lube is all we are allowed.
User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4926
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Rattling car

Post by gpraceman »

not so fast wrote:It had offset wheels. The rules stated in 2 different places that wheels must be directly across from each other.
While I agree that the exiting rules should have been enforced, I really have to question why this rule exists in the first place. I really do not see how that would pose an unfair advantage.
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
not so fast
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Rattling car

Post by not so fast »

I don't think it was an advantage, just the way it was handled. The car wasn't DQed because he helps with building the cars for the other kids. Wrong is wrong. Shouldn't matter who it is. I was really more concerned with the rattling. Just doesn't make sense how it is so fast with that rattle. Seems like it should slow it down, unless it's something like bearings or bushings. These are also against our rules.
TXDerbyDad
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:04 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Rattling car

Post by TXDerbyDad »

The only thing I can think of is tungsten cubes in a loose weight pocket. We had a car like that 2 years ago where I routed the weight pockets with a 1/4" bit and it left a rounded edge on the side and was also a little too deep. So, as you handled the car, the tungsten would clank together, but it was far from loud. You felt it more than anything.
User avatar
FatSebastian
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 2803
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:49 pm
Location: Boogerton, PA

Re: Rattling car

Post by FatSebastian »

:welcome: nsf! (Love that handle! :thumbup: )
not so fast wrote:Just doesn't make sense how it is so fast with that rattle.
:idk: Not actually having seen the car, or having heard the rattle directly, we here can only speculate. Understanding that the 2nd place car was a 3-wheel rail rider with aggressive COM, and that the parent has known expertise (he helped the other Scouts), I would assume that the rattler was similarly configured as a rail-rider. I would therefore conjecture that vibration of the raised, non-DFW wheel might have been the source of the noise.
not so fast
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Rattling car

Post by not so fast »

FatSebastian wrote: :idk: Not actually having seen the car, or having heard the rattle directly, we here can only speculate. Understanding that the 2nd place car was a 3-wheel rail rider with aggressive COM, and that the parent has known expertise (he helped the other Scouts), I would assume that the rattler was similarly configured as a rail-rider. I would therefore conjecture that vibration of the raised, non-DFW wheel might have been the source of the noise.

I knew it would be difficult having not heard the rattle in person. Just was looking for some ideas or speculation from some with more experience. I thought, too, that it may be the raised wheel. But it sounded more like a metal on metal rattle than plastic on metal.


This car was also built independently of the others. With the "selective enforcement" of the rules, it seems he thinks he's untouchable.
User avatar
FatSebastian
Pine Head Legend
Pine Head Legend
Posts: 2803
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:49 pm
Location: Boogerton, PA

Re: Rattling car

Post by FatSebastian »

not so fast wrote:...it seems he thinks he's untouchable.
May we presume that your Scout owned the 2nd-place car? You seem to know a lot of details about the 2nd-place car -- and appear to harbor some mild resentment against that 1st-place rattler! ;)
not so fast
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Rattling car

Post by not so fast »

That would be an accurate presumption.
Post Reply