Compairing BSA World Speed times

General topics of interest to racers and race coordinators alike.
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ZebsRacing
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Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by ZebsRacing » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:20 pm

Hello, I am new here but have been lurking awhile, anywhoooo. As my title explains, I am tryingvto prepare for my sons District Race, and with testing I am using the speed times provided for the 2016 "World Championship" Pro Stock held in New York.

My question to you guys, as most of you are quite knowledgeable is that not enough data to run at the top level of those speed times? Am I only kidding myself because not all the fast kids get to take a trip to liberty city? I love crunching the numbers and trying to find speed, is this a decent way to "simulate" compitition or am I teaching my sons something bad?



Speedster
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Re: Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by Speedster » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:55 am

Those times are probably meaningless to you. Let's say you were at your District race last year and the track was a 35' Best track. Also, Elapsed times were posted for every race and you stayed all day and watched all the races and recorded the fastest time for each race. You now have a good record. You go to your garage and uncover your 35' Best track. If Best track punched the holes in both tracks the car will be traveling 29'10" from pin to timer. It's a plus if you both have the same timer but that's not critical. You will now have a good idea how fast you must go to win the race. If you don't have your own track simply watch what happens when you come up against the fastest car and that will give you an idea how much faster you need to go. Regardless of your rules, it is possible to build a 3 wheel rail rider and still comply with the rules. If your rules have the "four on the ground rule" It takes a whole lot of work and you can find how to do it in the "search" function.



ZebsRacing
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Re: Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by ZebsRacing » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:31 pm

I see, I appreciate that help. I was hoping to gain an idea at what we are up against as this is our first year in scouts, and are unfamiliar with how competitive districts can be.



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whodathunkit
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Re: Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by whodathunkit » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:10 pm

I think the fastest car in the pro stock division ran a 2.9754 and the stock car division ran a 3.0188.

check out www.bsa-gnyc.org/championshippinewood for videos and photos.


What type of automobile can be spelled the same forwards & backwards?

ZebsRacing
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Re: Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by ZebsRacing » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:08 pm

Thank you guys for taking the time to talk to me, so the car is running a time of 3.036-3.038 is that okay times, I feel. Not knowing the variables as Speedster has said to watch for the fastest times, I just dont have that info as its our first year.

I get what hes saying, but does it seems like I should keep working on it with my boy.



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Re: Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by Pacfanweb » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:21 pm

The fastest Pro Stock car, a Tiger's car, ran a best time of about 2.92. His average was 2.94.

Almost positive there was a sub-3 in Stock as well.

My son's car ran a fastest of 3.000-something before slowing up a bit, probably due to the rough handling of the cars. I witnessed several cars that were close to ours slow up even more and become non-factors.
8 run average was 3.0205. Was getting faster on every run until the 3.000, then slowed way up, then sped back up a hair. Took audible damage on the 8th run and was slowed down more for the Fast 15 runoff. Ended up 4th fastest.

My son's car stayed fast enough to win the Webelos 2 World Championship for Pro Stock, so it was a fun day.

If you go, have a plan for check-in, because it takes a LONG time and your kids WILL need to be taken somewhere to use the restroom.



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Re: Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by Pacfanweb » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:38 pm

ZebsRacing wrote:Thank you guys for taking the time to talk to me, so the car is running a time of 3.036-3.038 is that okay times, I feel. Not knowing the variables as Speedster has said to watch for the fastest times, I just dont have that info as its our first year.

I get what hes saying, but does it seems like I should keep working on it with my boy.
Bottom line is, your car may or may not be fast enough. A 42' Best track is not a 42' Best track. They are all different.

Sometimes they are even different from one place to another, if the track is moved around. You can look at the Mid-Am's for proof. I think it was [no advertising for this vendor]'s track that was used for the pros there last year. Same track was used at his place for a race last October....and the same builders were over .01 slower...on the same track. Now you know they didn't lose a hundredth over the summer. That was the track.

And if you look at the very next NPWDRL race after last year's Mid-Am, the exact same cars were roughly .04 slower on that track.

Now, we're talking 2 of the nicest tracks in the world here. Not some Scout track that sits in the attic all year. These things are massaged, polished, sighted and measured to the 'nth' degree....and they don't even remotely produce the same times, so imagine 2 bone-stock tracks, outside in the sun that sat out there all the previous night.

So...no real way to predict your times there. Sorry.



358t
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Re: Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by 358t » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:46 pm

Along the same lines... Lets say a person has a Best Track and can set it up as a 35' model or a 42' model just by adding the extra section. What sort of elapsed time difference would be expected? I ask because it appears from my limited research that the difference between a 35' model and a 42' model (assuming all else the same except the extra section) is around a factor of 1.201. By this I mean take whatever it runs when set up as the 35' model and multiply that by 1.201 to get an approximation of what it would be when set up as a 42' model. For example.... 2.500 x 1.201 = 3.0025

Anyone have comparison results they would like to share?

Scott



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Re: Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by Pacfanweb » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:14 pm

358t wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:46 pm
Along the same lines... Lets say a person has a Best Track and can set it up as a 35' model or a 42' model just by adding the extra section. What sort of elapsed time difference would be expected? I ask because it appears from my limited research that the difference between a 35' model and a 42' model (assuming all else the same except the extra section) is around a factor of 1.201. By this I mean take whatever it runs when set up as the 35' model and multiply that by 1.201 to get an approximation of what it would be when set up as a 42' model. For example.... 2.500 x 1.201 = 3.0025

Anyone have comparison results they would like to share?

Scott
Okay, I can give you a direct comparison on this exact scenario.

Last year my daughter's Mid America car ran an average of 2.963 in the preliminary round. That was on a 42' Best track.
That was a top 10 car. No tuning, set it for 4" of steer over 4' and sent it in.

Fast forward to her Powderpuff Derby race in May: We re-prepped the car (cleaned the axles off, re-sprayed with Sail Kote, added more graphite and reinstalled. Same 4" over 4'. Wife entered it in the Outlaw race. (wasn't legal for the GS race)
Running on a 35' Best track this time. Car averaged 2.57. So you can surely figure some difference between the two tracks, but roughly that's your difference there, give or take probably a tenth. About .4

Side note: The Outlaw race was Friday night. Later in the day, (we ran the girls by age group) there was more time between the older girls because of less entries. So some wanted to run their cars for fun, then they wanted to run against the Outlaw car. I was the starter, so I ran it in the same lane each time. Noted the times. (2.576, iirc) When they were done, we still had lots of time, so I adjusted the steer a bit. Got it down to a 2.550 and it would consistently repeat very low 2.55's. (this was after a ton of runs on graphite, too) Taught me something about tuning. That .026 gain would have put it at the top of the Mid-America race.



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Re: Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by Speedster » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:41 am

After you tuned it, how much did it drift in 4'?



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Re: Compairing BSA World Speed times

Post by Pacfanweb » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:00 pm

Speedster wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:41 am
After you tuned it, how much did it drift in 4'?
Didn't check it. Wish I had. :wall:



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