Timer Malfunction

Commercial timing systems
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davem
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Timer Malfunction

Post by davem »

I was reviewing a video tape of last years derby and saw something that disturbed me. The track and timer are vintage Awana. I was thinking about replacing both...now I'm almost convinced it is time for a new setup.

Look at the following sequence to see the timer erroneously report the blue car as the winner. Anyone have any ideas or similar experiences?


http://home.cinci.rr.com/mckenney/timerissue.htm
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Stan Pope
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Re: Timer Malfunction

Post by Stan Pope »

Interesting picture sequence! What did the finish line judges say about the result? Why did they not overrule it?

Some possibilities:
1. The red car appears to have a narrower front end, and was offset in its lane, possibly allowing light (either direct or reflected off the side support) to enter the sensor until the axle area crossed the line. That the entry hole for light to the sensor appears to be at least 1/2" diameter makes this more likely.
2. The blue car had a hidden side-focused electronic stasis field generator which prevented the red car's sensor from triggering on time.
3. more???

I think that I favor 1, so far.
Stan
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gpraceman
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Re: Timer Malfunction

Post by gpraceman »

The Awana track plans for one really have the lane strips far too narrow. This allows cars to drift too far to one side or the other so nose profile can cause problems at the finish. Commercial tracks generally have these being about 1 5/8" wide so cars cannot drift much.

Also, there may have been a reflected light issue onto the sensor. This is more likely to happen on the yellow lane, as is this case, since lighter colors tend to reflect more light. The RaceMaster owner's manual even mentions this issue. This issue can be solved by painting a flat black line across the finish line to cut glare and making sure that the sensors are recessed down well enough inside the track. The recessing helps make sure that the sensor is receiving its light mainly from straight above.

So, I think this particular result was due to the combination of the lane strips being too narrow, slim nose profile and too much light getting to the sensors through glare and/or by the senors being too close to the top of the lane strips.
Randy Lisano
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Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
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davem
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Re: Timer Malfunction

Post by davem »

Stan - The finish line judges were split so they decided to rely on the timer's results. You raise a good point. This was the only controversial finish that day, and the only instructions the judges were given was to call for a heat to be re-run if there was any lane jumping or interference. Should we require a re-run if the judges aren't unanimous?

I'm going to lobby for:

a. Ideally...time for a new commercial track & timer. Track is at least 20 years old, has some joint problems (just like me) and the timer won't interface to a computer (we do like the GrandPrix Race Manager software).

b. At least paint the finish line area with flat black.

Thanks for the insights. I was thinking electronics...not sensors.
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terryep
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Re: Timer Malfunction

Post by terryep »

If I had access to the timer I would put it too the pencil test. Swing a pencil quickly through each beam. I like to tap the pencil with my finger to fire it across the beam. If the timer fails to register it it is not designed properly and should be replaced. As long as the car's nose is wide enough to cover the beam, even when riding a rail, the timer shoud be able to register properly.
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Re: Timer Malfunction

Post by mbb »

We didnt have a timer, just an electic eye with LED readout above the lanes that says 1,2,3,4 etc . But my sons car clearly beat another by ~1ft in one heat and the readout said the other car came in 1, and my sons was 2. There was some confusion on the faces of the guys running the track, they saw it too. I thought it could have been my vantage point, but my daugter was sitting at the very end of the track and came up to me and told me the same thing, that my sons car won and the electric eye said another one did. The management gave the heat to the other car since thats what the electronics said, regardless of what everyone saw. I didnt raise a stink because that wouldnt really be in keeping with the motives of PWD (i.e. winning is secondary to time well spent with your kid). Only race we "lost" that day.

Raced that same car again in same lanes on the final, and beat it handily (again) by ~6"-8" or so.
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Re: Timer Malfunction

Post by gpraceman »

mbb wrote:We didnt have a timer, just an electic eye with LED readout above the lanes that says 1,2,3,4 etc .
You may not have seen any times, but that was a timer.
mbb wrote:But my sons car clearly beat another by ~1ft in one heat and the readout said the other car came in 1, and my sons was 2. ... The management gave the heat to the other car since thats what the electronics said, regardless of what everyone saw.
When in doubt, the heat should have been rerun. Technology is great, but it should never be fully trusted since it can never be gauranteed to always be correct.
Randy Lisano
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Re: Timer Malfunction

Post by DerbyAddict »

gpraceman wrote: When in doubt, the heat should have been rerun. Technology is great, but it should never be fully trusted since it can never be gauranteed to always be correct.
I was thinking this year, even though we didn't have any malfunctions, about using a digital camcorder. With the size of these things now, it would be nothing to put one at the finish line and keep it unobtrusive. A DV tape can hold 80 minutes of video. Just start it when the racing starts and change tapes if needed. Set an alarm for 70 minutes and pause the racing. If there is any issue with timer malfunction, you can review it instantly. Could get some great stills of the cars that way also. Still have the human line judges there, just in case you need to totally go low tech, but the camcorder would be the "digital" third set of eyes.
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