Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Drag racing style light trees
BuzzKill
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:31 pm
Location: Morgan Hill, California

Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by BuzzKill »

Since parallel is dead (This would be SOOOO much easier if they just put the parallel code back in) and the links to the serial to parallel conversion circuit are also dead, there is currently no "total" solution. There are bits and parts here and there. I think we need a real, reproducable, solution that we can publish for all to use. A small mirco controller like a ATmel, Picaxe, Arduino or similar would be useful.

Leave the timing to GP.

My vision is:

A simple through hole board that a 9 yr old could solder. LEDs for the light tree, or optional SSR for using 120V lamps if desired. The circuit should have enough current for each output to power a small cluster of LEDs and at least one output to handle 1 amp for the solenoid.

I think I would prefer an audio line out, instead of an internal speaker for using with external speakers or a PA system. (We have over 80 boys in our pack, so we have a huge crowd for our races)

The basic operation of the system is:

Have the red staging light on.
On initiation of the race signal from the serial port start a 3-5 second random delay.
At the end of the delay go to the first yellow and play a beep.
go to the second yellow, play a beep
go to the third yellow, play a beep
go to green, play a beeeeeeeep and activate the solenoid.

The solenoid opening the gate also trips the micro switch to begin timing.

Integration of the system and solenoid into the the various track systems is up to the circuit builder.

Rinse. Lather. Repeat for the next 200 heats.

Comments?
User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4926
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by gpraceman »

BuzzKill wrote:Since parallel is dead (This would be SOOOO much easier if they just put the parallel code back in)
In some ways yes, in many ways no. It wasn't an easy decision to pull parallel support, but it would have come sooner or later. Since GPRM underwent a radical re-design with V7, it came sooner.
BuzzKill wrote:and the links to the serial to parallel conversion circuit are also dead,
Well, I did notify the author of those plans about that problem. However, it is a low priority for him, since he just got notified that he lost his job.

Though, I have a copy of those plans and have posted them to fix that problem. You can download them at http://www.grandprix-race-central.com/m ... load&cid=3.

Those plans could use a bit of simplification, but that is not likely to happen anytime soon.
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
BuzzKill
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:31 pm
Location: Morgan Hill, California

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by BuzzKill »

Thanks for posting the schematic for the serial conversion. That is definately a bigger picture now.

I am only kinda, sorta, a little, chiding you about the parallel support. All my lighting animation projects either have dropped PPT or are in the process.

My derby is in January. So that is my deadline to have this complete.

In discussing this with my lighting animation buddies, I think a picaxe microcontroller hooked up to a LN2803 that drives either LED's directly or a small group of MOC opto-isolators into a triac would work well. With a triac you could switch regular 120 volt colored flood lights. Then this could pull double duty for your cub mobile races! I have to brush up on my BASIC as I have not touched it in years. And I still need to figure out the beep beep beep part. But the picture is starting to come into focus.
User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4926
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by gpraceman »

Personally, I'd steer away from 120V AC circuits. Safer to stick to low voltage DC.

LED clusters have come a long way. They can still be a bit expensive, though. Most of the cost of a tree seems to be caught up in the lights.
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
BuzzKill
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:31 pm
Location: Morgan Hill, California

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by BuzzKill »

Just a heads up, I think I have most of a working circuit. (In theory anyway) I have some PIC code, mostly snippets from other PIC timing and lighting projects. So far the board is looking pretty small, and single sided. So it would be simple to home etch, or you could even build it on some perf board.
BuzzKill
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:31 pm
Location: Morgan Hill, California

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by BuzzKill »

Progress report...

I have a working prototype that runs on a PIC micro processor, a ULN2003, and some supporting hardware. There are about 25 components, not counting the solenoid and the LED array's themselves.

The tree is activated by the trigger from the serial port.

The solenoid is 12V 1A
The LED arrays are still being figured out. (How many of each color, how bright, what configuration, etc)

There is a line out jack for the beep so it can be sent through some self powered PC speakers, or like in my case, plugged into a small mixer and run through a portable PA system.

As soon as I have something that would resemble a "kit" I will let you all know. The construction is trivial. All the parts are regular size. So anyone that knows which end of a soldering iron to use should be able to construct this.

There may be a PC board coming, but for right now strip board works fine. I have mine on a breadboard.

There are 2 "gotchas.

1. Programming the code into the PIC chip. This has to be done with a PIC programmer. Not sure how to make this available yet. The chips will probably be made availabe to purchase pre-programmed at a small cost. I think the cost would be under $10.

2. You will have to make the solenoid work with your own track. This will be a fairly short learning curve I think. After a few people do it and post their "How-to" then everybody else should just be able to follow along.
altontoth
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: Burnaby, BC
Contact:

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by altontoth »

The USB based solution I'm working on should be finished in the next month or so. The light tree plugs into the main controller, which handles everything before spitting results back to the computer. My race is March 14th, so if I get it finished in time, it may be available for rent. I also plan on making kits available in the coming months. It runs off of an Atmel ATMEGA324 microcontroller, and interfaces via a mini-USB jack. The light tree, along with solenoid, are enabled or disabled using DIP switches, as is the configuration for 3-5 lanes of timing. The nice thing about this is it's easily adapted both in largeness (ie you could change a couple lines of code to enable timing up to hours long), and in terms of number of inputs. I can monitor up to 10 lanes with a slight board redesign. Anyone interested, please email me.
quadad
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 494
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:51 am
Location: SE, WI

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by quadad »

Any updates to the options above ? I am interested in how these options worked out in real use.

Our Pack is currently still using GPRM Version 5 and an OLD computer. So, it still has parallel ports. I think it would be an exciting addition to add a light tree and solenoid start to our track. One thing I would like different though is to "AND" the computer controlled solenoid activation with a start button that the scouts would hit after the "green". It could also be left active, if we didn't want to do that.

Regarding the computer, there is something to be said about letting old PCs work until they die. So, its really a struggle to decide about going modern PC/USB or leaving the old stuff working. In essence, this is an appliance.

I did a quick check on the main part prices listed in the schematics. The LED prices vary, but can be less than $1 if you were to create your own light ring of angle-limited devices. The solenoid though was like $33 + shipping. You would think (guess) that sticking to 12V - 24Vdc devices would make the parts fairly cheap. I would like to use whatever voltages we already have, and maybe go with a single, higher-output, as opposed to additonal power supply. Obviously there are commercial options out there for all of this, so at some point we are wasting out time.

I am trying also to keep the 'appliance' mentality. Just because I can build and program, doesn't mean someone else will when my kids move on to Boy Scouts. This stuff has to be fairly rugged, pack well, maybe carry some spare parts, etc., and be able to be maintained. Nothing is worse than a room full of scouts and their parents and a non-functional track (at least as far as PWD does).

So, I appreciate others for blazing the trail on the home-brew solutions and am interested in hearing how they are working out.
quadad
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 494
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:51 am
Location: SE, WI

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by quadad »

I am still looking to hear any updates from the other experimenters out there, but I plunged into this today. Got two different 12V solenoids for $20 from McMaster Carr that I will use for development. The ULN2003 sounds like a good driver that I might have some earlier generations of in my basement storage (from the days when I did this stuff for a living).

Will wait a bit to work on the light tree (try to get some samples first), but I will try to get the solenoid part working first. Plan is to have GPRM send a signal to the (yet to be created) light tree, and then put a Cub Scout actuated switch and the darlington driver in series with the signal that GPRM sends to drive the solenoid. I think this should work find as long as the timer still measures the time from microswitch sensing of the release to cars crossing the finish line.
User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4926
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by gpraceman »

quadad wrote:Will wait a bit to work on the light tree (try to get some samples first), but I will try to get the solenoid part working first. Plan is to have GPRM send a signal to the (yet to be created) light tree, and then put a Cub Scout actuated switch and the darlington driver in series with the signal that GPRM sends to drive the solenoid. I think this should work find as long as the timer still measures the time from microswitch sensing of the release to cars crossing the finish line.
GPRM will trigger either a light tree OR a solenoid gate via the serial port, not both. GPRM is not controlling the light sequence of the tree (it just kicks off the light sequence), so it has no way of knowing when the lights hit green. The tree would have to activate the solenoid, if using both devices.
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
quadad
Master Pine Head
Master Pine Head
Posts: 494
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:51 am
Location: SE, WI

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by quadad »

gpraceman wrote: GPRM will trigger either a light tree OR a solenoid gate via the serial port, not both. GPRM is not controlling the light sequence of the tree (it just kicks off the light sequence), so it has no way of knowing when the lights hit green. The tree would have to activate the solenoid, if using both devices.
OK, that makes total sense now, thanks ! I can easily route the light tree "Green" signal through the switch that the Scout will actuate to start the solenoid.

Our timer will be dumb and will still time off of the microswitch and light sensor actions. Likewise GPRM will get the times from the timer as before. We just have to update to the latest GPRM software, it sounds, to get the light tree started (we are still at 5.0).
User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4926
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by gpraceman »

quadad wrote:Our timer will be dumb and will still time off of the microswitch and light sensor actions. Likewise GPRM will get the times from the timer as before.
Yes, timing should be independent of any solenoid gate activation and go strictly off of the gate physically opening.
quadad wrote:We just have to update to the latest GPRM software, it sounds, to get the light tree started (we are still at 5.0).
With GPRM V6 and earlier, it could control a light tree and solenoid gate, but off of the parallel port. With V7 and above, it controls these devices off of the serial port (pin 4 or 7).
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
Mr. Slick
Merchant
Merchant
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:16 am
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by Mr. Slick »

So with a USB adapter does GPRM send a signal/voltage or connect to ground?

The reason I ask is that my start mechanism is operated via push button switch.

Should I get a light tree that is triggered by the voltage on the USB/serial pin and then have the light tree act like the push button switch to activate the start gate?
Mr. Slick says: Honey, I am doing this for the kids, not myself.
User avatar
gpraceman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4926
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Contact:

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by gpraceman »

Mr. Slick wrote:So with a USB adapter does GPRM send a signal/voltage or connect to ground?

The reason I ask is that my start mechanism is operated via push button switch.

Should I get a light tree that is triggered by the voltage on the USB/serial pin and then have the light tree act like the push button switch to activate the start gate?
If using both devices, GPRM can trigger the tree, but the tree will then have to trigger the solenoid gate through whatever means the solenoid circuit requires. It all depends on how that switch to the solenoid is wired up.
Randy Lisano
Romans 5:8

Awana Grand Prix and Pinewood Derby racing - Where a child, an adult and a small block of wood combine for a lot of fun and memories.
altontoth
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: Burnaby, BC
Contact:

Re: Does Anyone Have A Working Start Tree?

Post by altontoth »

Actually I have my timer working beautifully. I've run the first USB version through a race, and have a second USB version (with some modifications) nearly finished. However, I have already found some improvements to make to a third version. This third version will be the first version publicly available. I hacked together a quick and dirty light tree for proof of concept, but am working on a new one that's a little bigger and would use relays / small incandescent bulbs. I'm switching to a start gate that is a servo motor, instead of a solenoid. This allows simplification of the circuit = less parts = cheaper.
Post Reply