The "Thrill" of the Race

[TurtlePowered]

Timers (clocks) are great for tuning up the cars. When the racing starts, turn them off!

Racing the clock requires that the participants trust the clocks and the knowledge ond thoroughness of the clock's operator. There are too many ways for the clocks to be compromised. Scouts and parents can be satisfied by their own observations that heat winners and even heat finish order are being called correctly. They have no chance to observe the correctness of clock timings.

If one can satisfy oneself of the clock's integrity, there are still issues. How are the times combined? Average or total of all runs? Exclude slowest and fastest runs? etc. As many do it, racing the clock puts a premium on consistency. One bad heat can put you "out of the money."

How can a clock be compromised?

[Stan Pope]

See thread at http://derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=192

[gpraceman]

See thread at http://derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=192

Still to me, it is a very unlikey scenario.

[Stan Pope]

All forms of cheating are low probability events. The probability of cheating is reduced when the process is structured in such a way as to detect and penalize cheating.

We inspect cars before racing for two reasons; to dissuade those who consider violating the rules, and to catch and correct those who do violate them.

We try to set rules only when we can reasonably check that they are followed. If the rules call for graphite lubricant only and a racer is lubricated with molybdenum graphite, we probably can't catch it.

The probability of the event is not a statement of the percentage of participants affected. A rule violation by one participant can affect the racing outcome for all of the other competitors. For example, if only 1% of the participants cheat, on average, then in a series races that involves 50 participants each, you would expect that about half of the participants are adversly affected.

The problem with timers and associated computer software is that most users don't know how to inspect them or what they need to do to preserve their integrity. Much of their operation is beyond most users ability to validate. It is absolutely beyond the audience to validate.

In the end, the decision to use timings must be based on the following:
1. The combination of timings measures and compares those attributes of the racers that we want to compare,
2. The probability of measurement error is acceptable, and
3. The benefit of using timings over other methods offsets the risks.

[Big Dirt]

After seeing the clinched fist and the "YES" from my sons mouth the look on his face, put them through the lights and let the fastest car take the gold home!

[Stan Pope]

After seeing the clinched fist and the "YES" from my sons mouth the look on his face, put them through the lights and let the fastest car take the gold home!

Not sure of your point ... I had a similar experience with my grandson at his council races during the past two years ... Didn't need a timer to know that he had built the fastest car on the tracks those days. Two wins on alternating lanes against every opponent.

[Big Dirt]

Stan, our finish line has a series of lights, when reading this thread I picture cars running down a one lane track and a time poping up. I just don't think a boy would have a good time racing that way. I feel if it takes 3 sec. or 3 hours to get down the track the look on the boys face tells it all.

[glaforge]

Here are results from my last PW derby. Racer names have been replaced by numbers. You will notice that each racer raced 8 times. What I find interesting is that in some cases there is a change in the top three places if I use place finish versus total time.

Now the arguments can really start!!! Who should have been where and why. (We used total time).

PS, each group is independant.

Group Heat Lane Racer Time Place
1 1 1 143 2.327 2
1 1 2 147 2.339 3
1 1 3 161 2.262 1
1 1 4 152 2.345 4
1 2 1 145 2.309 1
1 2 2 148 2.35 3
1 2 3 163 2.489 4
1 2 4 153 2.327 2
1 3 1 165 2.323 2
1 3 2 156 2.275 1
1 3 3 154 2.37 3
1 3 4 157 2.626 4
1 4 1 153 2.336 2
1 4 2 155 2.266 1
1 4 3 149 2.436 3
1 4 4 160 2.442 4
1 5 1 164 2.285 1
1 5 2 143 2.319 3
1 5 3 159 2.464 4
1 5 4 150 2.292 2
1 6 1 151 2.239 1
1 6 2 153 2.324 2
1 6 3 147 2.342 3
1 6 4 158 2.518 4
1 7 1 148 2.363 4
1 7 2 150 2.35 3
1 7 3 165 2.336 2
1 7 4 155 2.306 1
1 8 1 156 2.246 1
1 8 2 158 2.528 4
1 8 3 152 2.404 3
1 8 4 164 2.327 2
1 9 1 149 2.391 2
1 9 2 161 2.265 1
1 9 3 159 2.504 4
1 9 4 163 2.492 3
1 10 1 165 2.343 2
1 10 2 145 2.363 3
1 10 3 160 2.507 4
1 10 4 151 2.294 1
1 11 1 147 2.373 1
1 11 2 149 2.401 4
1 11 3 164 2.382 2
1 11 4 154 2.396 3
1 12 1 150 2.288 1
1 12 2 152 2.342 3
1 12 3 145 2.306 2
1 12 4 157 2.641 4
1 13 1 158 2.564 4
1 13 2 160 2.515 3
1 13 3 154 2.344 2
1 13 4 143 2.329 1
1 14 1 155 2.338 2
1 14 2 157 2.612 4
1 14 3 151 2.243 1
1 14 4 163 2.499 3
1 15 1 152 2.353 3
1 15 2 154 2.323 1
1 15 3 148 2.35 2
1 15 4 159 2.505 4
1 16 1 149 2.346 4
1 16 2 151 2.25 1
1 16 3 143 2.3 3
1 16 4 156 2.261 2
1 17 1 159 2.488 4
1 17 2 161 2.267 1
1 17 3 155 2.279 2
1 17 4 145 2.318 3
1 18 1 160 2.479 3
1 18 2 163 2.538 4
1 18 3 156 2.252 1
1 18 4 147 2.349 2
1 19 1 161 2.268 1
1 19 2 164 2.348 2
1 19 3 157 2.618 4
1 19 4 148 2.386 3
1 20 1 163 2.493 3
1 20 2 165 2.298 1
1 20 3 158 2.55 4
1 20 4 149 2.407 2
1 21 1 160 2.515 4
1 21 2 152 2.347 2
1 21 3 150 2.352 3
1 21 4 153 2.323 1
1 22 1 143 2.318 2
1 22 2 157 2.565 4
1 22 3 155 2.264 1
1 22 4 158 2.525 3
1 23 1 154 2.336 4
1 23 2 156 2.232 1
1 23 3 150 2.276 3
1 23 4 161 2.239 2
1 24 1 157 2.648 4
1 24 2 159 2.504 3
1 24 3 153 2.332 2
1 24 4 165 2.302 1
1 25 1 155 2.287 1
1 25 2 147 2.326 3
1 25 3 143 2.313 2
1 25 4 148 2.334 4
1 26 1 151 2.251 1
1 26 2 164 2.284 3
1 26 3 161 2.256 2
1 26 4 165 2.292 4
1 27 1 145 2.317 2
1 27 2 158 2.737 4
1 27 3 156 2.267 1
1 27 4 159 2.491 3
1 28 1 150 2.286 1
1 28 2 163 2.512 4
1 28 3 160 2.455 3
1 28 4 164 2.287 2
1 29 1 154 2.344 3
1 29 2 145 2.336 2
1 29 3 165 2.285 1
1 29 4 147 2.336 2
1 30 1 159 2.52 4
1 30 2 151 2.258 1
1 30 3 149 2.362 3
1 30 4 152 2.321 2
1 31 1 148 2.371 2
1 31 2 160 2.472 3
1 31 3 158 2.561 4
1 31 4 161 2.236 1
1 32 1 153 2.617 4
1 32 2 143 2.33 1
1 32 3 164 2.359 3
1 32 4 145 2.334 2
1 33 1 157 2.647 4
1 33 2 149 2.375 3
1 33 3 147 2.344 2
1 33 4 150 2.299 1
1 34 1 163 2.534 4
1 34 2 154 2.349 1
1 34 3 152 2.373 2
1 34 4 155 2.378 3
1 35 1 156 2.264 1
1 35 2 148 2.371 3
1 35 3 145 2.341 2
1 35 4 149 2.373 4
1 36 1 161 2.23 1
1 36 2 153 2.419 4
1 36 3 151 2.247 2
1 36 4 154 2.354 3
1 37 1 147 2.343 1
1 37 2 159 2.509 3
1 37 3 157 2.544 4
1 37 4 160 2.471 2
1 38 1 152 2.331 3
1 38 2 165 2.33 2
1 38 3 163 2.499 4
1 38 4 143 2.304 1
1 39 1 158 2.526 4
1 39 2 150 2.325 2
1 39 3 148 2.352 3
1 39 4 151 2.24 1
1 40 1 164 2.297 3
1 40 2 155 2.258 2
1 40 3 153 2.324 4
1 40 4 156 2.242 1
2 1 1 110 2.251 1
2 1 2 112 2.275 2
2 1 3 116 2.363 3
2 1 4 120 3.036 4
2 2 1 111 2.611 3
2 2 2 114 2.256 1
2 2 3 117 2.389 2
2 2 4 121 3.039 4
2 3 1 119 2.291 2
2 3 2 122 2.503 4
2 3 3 124 2.417 3
2 3 4 118 2.276 1
2 4 1 123 2.394 2
2 4 2 125 2.536 3
2 4 3 110 2.236 1
2 4 4 115 2.701 4
2 5 1 117 2.439 3
2 5 2 119 2.326 2
2 5 3 122 2.518 4
2 5 4 126 2.323 1
2 6 1 118 2.296 1
2 6 2 120 3.074 4
2 6 3 123 2.41 3
2 6 4 127 2.348 2
2 7 1 124 2.444 2
2 7 2 126 2.346 1
2 7 3 111 2.569 4
2 7 4 116 2.491 3
2 8 1 125 2.595 4
2 8 2 127 2.361 2
2 8 3 112 2.28 1
2 8 4 117 2.417 3
2 9 1 115 2.702 3
2 9 2 118 2.289 2
2 9 3 120 3.056 4
2 9 4 114 2.244 1
2 10 1 119 2.298 2
2 10 2 121 3.022 4
2 10 3 124 2.447 3
2 10 4 110 2.25 1
2 11 1 126 2.356 2
2 11 2 111 2.572 3
2 11 3 114 2.276 1
2 11 4 125 2.678 4
2 12 1 112 2.286 1
2 12 2 115 2.704 4
2 12 3 118 2.294 2
2 12 4 122 2.526 3
2 13 1 114 2.255 1
2 13 2 116 2.418 4
2 13 3 119 2.327 2
2 13 4 123 2.39 3
2 14 1 122 2.537 3
2 14 2 125 2.438 2
2 14 3 127 2.352 1
2 14 4 121 2.924 4
2 15 1 115 2.696 3
2 15 2 117 2.42 1
2 15 3 120 3.081 4
2 15 4 124 2.442 2
2 16 1 121 3.006 4
2 16 2 123 2.392 3
2 16 3 126 2.319 1
2 16 4 112 2.377 2
2 17 1 110 2.241 1
2 17 2 114 2.28 2
2 17 3 116 2.384 4
2 17 4 127 2.374 3
2 18 1 120 3.299 4
2 18 2 122 2.614 2
2 18 3 125 2.579 1
2 18 4 111 2.72 3
2 19 1 116 2.435 2
2 19 2 119 2.303 1
2 19 3 121 3.056 4
2 19 4 115 2.681 3
2 20 1 124 2.422 3
2 20 2 127 2.351 1
2 20 3 111 2.687 4
2 20 4 123 2.378 2
2 21 1 126 2.343 4
2 21 2 110 2.253 1
2 21 3 114 2.263 2
2 21 4 118 2.284 3
2 22 1 117 2.412 1
2 22 2 120 3.145 4
2 22 3 122 2.59 3
2 22 4 116 2.508 2
2 23 1 125 2.572 4
2 23 2 110 2.28 1
2 23 3 112 2.285 2
2 23 4 124 2.419 3
2 24 1 127 2.347 2
2 24 2 111 2.719 4
2 24 3 115 2.713 3
2 24 4 119 2.309 1
2 25 1 118 2.285 1
2 25 2 121 2.981 4
2 25 3 123 2.87 3
2 25 4 117 2.411 2
2 26 1 127 2.343 3
2 26 2 112 2.278 1
2 26 3 115 2.669 4
2 26 4 126 2.309 2
2 27 1 116 2.391 2
2 27 2 118 2.283 1
2 27 3 121 2.883 4
2 27 4 125 2.433 3
2 28 1 114 2.247 1
2 28 2 117 2.407 4
2 28 3 119 2.307 2
2 28 4 112 2.359 3
2 29 1 123 2.69 4
2 29 2 126 2.295 2
2 29 3 110 2.271 1
2 29 4 122 2.568 3
2 30 1 112 2.289 1
2 30 2 116 2.422 3
2 30 3 118 2.297 2
2 30 4 111 2.69 4
2 31 1 121 2.925 3
2 31 2 124 2.43 2
2 31 3 126 2.362 1
2 31 4 120 3.073 4
2 32 1 111 2.699 4
2 32 2 115 2.666 3
2 32 3 117 2.437 2
2 32 4 110 2.249 1
2 33 1 122 2.579 4
2 33 2 124 2.455 3
2 33 3 127 2.35 2
2 33 4 114 2.269 1
2 34 1 120 3.146 3
2 34 2 123 2.72 2
2 34 3 125 3.683 4
2 34 4 119 2.323 1
3 1 1 90 2.39 2
3 1 2 93 2.792 4
3 1 3 98 2.363 1
3 1 4 106 2.587 3
3 2 1 91 2.433 3
3 2 2 95 2.333 2
3 2 3 99 2.9 4
3 2 4 107 2.298 1
3 3 1 100 2.409 4
3 3 2 103 2.406 3
3 3 3 109 2.371 2
3 3 4 101 2.309 1
3 4 1 102 2.386 2
3 4 2 105 2.381 1
3 4 3 108 2.416 4
3 4 4 98 2.401 3
3 5 1 101 2.303 1
3 5 2 103 2.383 4
3 5 3 107 2.326 2
3 5 4 96 2.34 3
3 6 1 100 2.371 3
3 6 2 102 2.332 2
3 6 3 106 2.547 4
3 6 4 95 2.33 1
3 7 1 109 2.374 3
3 7 2 91 2.423 4
3 7 3 96 2.352 2
3 7 4 105 2.346 1
3 8 1 108 2.443 3
3 8 2 90 2.445 4
3 8 3 95 2.372 1
3 8 4 103 2.391 2
3 9 1 99 2.882 4
3 9 2 101 2.292 1
3 9 3 105 2.345 2
3 9 4 93 2.655 3
3 10 1 96 2.334 1
3 10 2 100 2.371 2
3 10 3 106 2.53 3
3 10 4 98 2.56 4
3 11 1 107 2.294 1
3 11 2 109 2.377 3
3 11 3 93 2.61 4
3 11 4 102 2.327 2
3 12 1 106 2.541 4
3 12 2 108 2.413 3
3 12 3 91 2.408 2
3 12 4 101 2.292 1
3 13 1 96 2.353 2
3 13 2 99 2.784 4
3 13 3 102 2.317 1
3 13 4 90 2.485 3
3 14 1 98 2.312 1
3 14 2 100 2.377 2
3 14 3 103 2.382 3
3 14 4 91 2.409 4
3 15 1 95 2.359 1
3 15 2 99 2.834 4
3 15 3 105 2.381 2
3 15 4 96 2.465 3
3 16 1 107 2.322 1
3 16 2 90 2.456 4
3 16 3 98 2.439 3
3 16 4 108 2.392 2
3 17 1 103 2.408 2
3 17 2 106 2.584 3
3 17 3 109 2.396 1
3 17 4 99 2.852 4
3 18 1 93 2.634 4
3 18 2 96 2.463 3
3 18 3 100 2.406 1
3 18 4 108 2.449 2
3 19 1 90 2.462 4
3 19 2 95 2.342 2
3 19 3 101 2.288 1
3 19 4 91 2.41 3
3 20 1 103 2.42 3
3 20 2 107 2.343 1
3 20 3 93 2.721 4
3 20 4 105 2.367 2
3 21 1 95 2.354 2
3 21 2 98 2.472 4
3 21 3 101 2.296 1
3 21 4 109 2.372 3
3 22 1 99 2.848 4
3 22 2 102 2.336 1
3 22 3 108 2.446 3
3 22 4 100 2.404 2
3 23 1 106 2.57 4
3 23 2 109 2.381 2
3 23 3 96 2.436 3
3 23 4 107 2.311 1
3 24 1 101 2.281 1
3 24 2 105 2.365 3
3 24 3 90 2.443 4
3 24 4 102 2.318 2
3 25 1 93 2.64 4
3 25 2 98 2.48 3
3 25 3 103 2.401 2
3 25 4 95 2.347 1
3 26 1 108 2.433 3
3 26 2 91 2.366 2
3 26 3 99 2.784 4
3 26 4 109 2.334 1
3 27 1 105 2.347 2
3 27 2 107 2.326 1
3 27 3 90 2.467 4
3 27 4 100 2.379 3
3 28 1 91 2.385 2
3 28 2 96 2.446 3
3 28 3 102 2.313 1
3 28 4 93 2.598 4
3 29 1 105 2.354 2
3 29 2 108 2.4 3
3 29 3 95 2.329 1
3 29 4 106 2.519 4
3 30 1 98 2.36 2
3 30 2 101 2.313 1
3 30 3 107 2.313 1
3 30 4 99 2.81 3
3 31 1 102 2.306 1
3 31 2 106 2.503 4
3 31 3 91 2.398 3
3 31 4 103 2.392 2
3 32 1 109 2.359 1
3 32 2 93 2.933 4
3 32 3 100 2.389 2
3 32 4 90 2.491 3
4 1 1 128 2.368 2
4 1 2 130 2.391 4
4 1 3 134 2.249 1
4 1 4 133 2.376 3
4 2 1 129 2.291 1
4 2 2 140 2.347 2
4 2 3 136 2.428 4
4 2 4 137 2.391 3
4 3 1 133 2.466 3
4 3 2 135 2.391 2
4 3 3 139 3.063 4
4 3 4 138 2.342 1
4 4 1 134 2.242 1
4 4 2 132 2.291 3
4 4 3 128 2.304 4
4 4 4 129 2.267 2
4 5 1 138 2.321 3
4 5 2 140 2.31 2
4 5 3 131 2.305 1
4 5 4 130 2.35 4
4 6 1 128 2.311 1
4 6 2 139 3.116 4
4 6 3 135 2.439 3
4 6 4 136 2.411 2
4 7 1 132 2.289 2
4 7 2 134 2.248 1
4 7 3 138 2.342 3
4 7 4 137 2.393 4
4 8 1 133 2.408 3
4 8 2 131 2.342 2
4 8 3 140 2.342 2
4 8 4 128 2.306 1
4 9 1 130 2.352 2
4 9 2 132 2.319 1
4 9 3 136 2.399 4
4 9 4 135 2.385 3
4 10 1 131 2.333 2
4 10 2 129 2.29 1
4 10 3 138 2.358 3
4 10 4 139 3.211 4
4 11 1 135 2.464 3
4 11 2 137 2.475 4
4 11 3 128 2.379 2
4 11 4 140 2.319 1
4 12 1 136 2.398 4
4 12 2 134 2.246 1
4 12 3 130 2.388 3
4 12 4 131 2.281 2
4 13 1 140 2.334 3
4 13 2 129 2.282 1
4 13 3 133 2.364 4
4 13 4 132 2.326 2
4 14 1 130 2.348 3
4 14 2 128 2.316 1
4 14 3 137 2.622 4
4 14 4 138 2.346 2
4 15 1 129 2.288 2
4 15 2 131 2.301 3
4 15 3 135 2.378 4
4 15 4 134 2.25 1
4 16 1 132 2.288 1
4 16 2 130 2.357 3
4 16 3 139 3.099 4
4 16 4 140 2.305 2
4 17 1 131 2.291 1
4 17 2 133 2.345 2
4 17 3 137 2.616 4
4 17 4 136 2.367 3
4 18 1 140 2.302 2
4 18 2 138 2.315 3
4 18 3 134 2.228 1
4 18 4 135 2.343 4
4 19 1 137 2.503 3
4 19 2 139 3.064 4
4 19 3 130 2.339 2
4 19 4 129 2.251 1
4 20 1 138 2.32 2
4 20 2 136 2.37 3
4 20 3 132 2.303 1
4 20 4 133 2.43 4
4 21 1 139 3.173 4
4 21 2 137 2.445 3
4 21 3 133 2.414 2
4 21 4 134 2.236 1
4 22 1 136 2.402 4
4 22 2 138 2.371 3
4 22 3 129 2.272 1
4 22 4 128 2.316 2
4 23 1 137 2.374 3
4 23 2 135 2.384 4
4 23 3 131 2.328 2
4 23 4 132 2.299 1
4 24 1 134 2.256 1
4 24 2 136 2.385 3
4 24 3 140 2.327 2
4 24 4 139 3.037 4
4 25 1 135 2.453 4
4 25 2 133 2.427 3
4 25 3 129 2.264 1
4 25 4 130 2.39 2
4 26 1 139 3.133 4
4 26 2 128 2.283 1
4 26 3 132 2.299 2
4 26 4 131 2.304 3
[/list]

[Stan Pope]

Stan, our finish line has a series of lights, when reading this thread I picture cars running down a one lane track and a time poping up. I just don't think a boy would have a good time racing that way. I feel if it takes 3 sec. or 3 hours to get down the track the look on the boys face tells it all.

I still don't know if you are reasoning for timed racing or head-to-head racing? At first, I thought it was timed, but, now, I think it may be head-to-head.

[TurtlePowered]

Stan, our finish line has a series of lights, when reading this thread I picture cars running down a one lane track and a time poping up. I just don't think a boy would have a good time racing that way. I feel if it takes 3 sec. or 3 hours to get down the track the look on the boys face tells it all.

I still don't know if you are reasoning for timed racing or head-to-head racing? At first, I thought it was timed, but, now, I think it may be head-to-head.

When car times get close, to the 1/1000 of a second, how accurate can a human eye be? When cars are that close, won't you get lane differences to come into play?

[Cory]

Here are results from my last PW derby.

Here's an attempt at one way of analyzing the data in Group 1. There were 20 cars, 40 heats, each car raced twice in each lane. This 2-round chart satisfied the PPN criteria.

Here's what I came up with for scoring:

Car# Total Time Sum of Places
143 18.540 15
145 18.624 17
147 18.752 17
148 18.877 24
149 19.091 25
150 18.468 16
151 18.022 9
152 18.816 22
153 19.002 21
154 18.816 20
155 18.376 13
156 18.039 9
157 20.901 32
158 20.509 31
159 19.985 29
160 19.856 26
161 18.023 10
163 20.056 29
164 18.569 18
165 18.509 15

Top three cars are 151, 156, and 161.

151 wins Total Time by 1 millisecond over 161. These two cars raced twice and split their races.

151 and 156 tie using PN/Stearns-type linear scoring. These two cars raced once with 151 winning.

Divide the chart in half:

Average time across heats 1 thru 20: 2.3778
Average time across heats 21 thru 40: 2.3701

Divide the chart into quarters:

Average time across heats 1 thru 10: 2.3656
Average time across heats 11 thru 20: 2.3900
Average time across heats 21 thru 30: 2.3634
Average time across heats 31 thru 20: 2.3768

Divide the chart into eighths:

Average time across heats 1 thru 5: 2.3591
Average time across heats 5 thru 10: 2.3721
Average time across heats 11 thru 15: 2.4052
Average time across heats 16 thru 20: 2.3748
Average time across heats 21 thru 25: 2.3669
Average time across heats 26 thru 30: 2.3599
Average time across heats 31 thru 35: 2.3964
Average time across heats 36 thru 40: 2.3573

Some variance here. For example, the track was almost a full car length slower in heats 11 thru 15 versus heats 36 thru 40.

However, although each car's races were fairly evenly spread, every car did not race the same number of times in each of these groups of heats. Hence, some of the variance may be attributable to the mix of cars and heats.

Another approach is to aggregate the 1st heats of all 20 cars and average them. Then aggregate the 2nd heats and average them, and so on.

Average of 1st heat times for all 20 cars: 2.3642
Average of 2nd heat times for all 20 cars: 2.3855
Average of 3rd heat times for all 20 cars: 2.3793
Average of 4th heat times for all 20 cars: 2.3709
Average of 5th heat times for all 20 cars: 2.35835
Average of 6th heat times for all 20 cars: 2.3888
Average of 7th heat times for all 20 cars: 2.38485
Average of 8th heat times for all 20 cars: 2.35965

Still some variance.

I think it is unlikely that this variance is completely attributable to the cars and drivers. Some of it must be coming from track repositioning, inconsistent operation of the starting gate, things outside the control of the drivers.

With Total Time as the final word, I feel that factors such as these are randomly and unpredictably determining the winners more than they have to.

And whether one uses time-scoring or place-scoring for a big chart like this one, why not run a place-scored CPN chart at the end of this with the top five or seven cars?

[Stan Pope]

Nice analysis, Cory. Especially like your suggestion at the end!

[Big Dirt]

Sorry Stan, the lights on out finish line tells the first, second, third and fourth place finish. I guess i'm a heads up kinda guy a timeing deal may be alright for us but we are not 8 years old.

[Stan Pope]

Sorry Stan, the lights on out finish line tells the first, second, third and fourth place finish. I guess i'm a heads up kinda guy a timeing deal may be alright for us but we are not 8 years old.

Oh! Okay! We are both arguing for head-to-head racing.

[Cory]

Here's the same analysis for Group 2 of glaforge's data.

This group had 17 cars. Same scheme as before, a 2-round PPN chart with 34 races, every car raced 8 times, 2 times in each lane.

Scoring:

Car# Total Time Sum of Places
110 18.031 8
111 21.267 29
112 18.429 13
114 18.09 10
115 21.532 27
116 19.412 23
117 19.332 18
118 18.304 13
119 18.484 13
120 24.91 31
121 23.836 31
122 20.435 26
123 20.244 22
124 19.476 21
125 21.514 25
126 18.653 14
127 18.826 16

Top three cars appear to be 110, 114 and 118, in that order.

Note that points scoring ended up with a 3-way tie for third place.

Divide the chart in half:

Average time across 1st half of heats: 2.4774
Average time across 2nd half of heats: 2.5340

Divide the chart into quarters:

Average time across 1st quarter of heats: 2.4647
Average time across 2nd quarter of heats: 2.4900
Average time across 3rd quarter of heats: 2.5333
Average time across 4th quarter of heats: 2.5345

Divide the chart into eighths:

Average time across 1st eighth of heats: 2.4714
Average time across 2nd eighth of heats: 2.4582
Average time across 3rd eighth of heats: 2.4711
Average time across 4th eighth of heats: 2.5090
Average time across 5th eighth of heats: 2.5341
Average time across 6th eighth of heats: 2.5326
Average time across 7th eighth of heats: 2.4188
Average time across 8th eighth of heats: 2.6504

Average heat times aggregation by heat number for each car:

Average of 1st heat times for all 17 cars: 2.4720
Average of 2nd heat times for all 17 cars: 2.4902
Average of 3rd heat times for all 17 cars: 2.4848
Average of 4th heat times for all 17 cars: 2.4876
Average of 5th heat times for all 17 cars: 2.5385
Average of 6th heat times for all 17 cars: 2.5188
Average of 7th heat times for all 17 cars: 2.4923
Average of 8th heat times for all 17 cars: 2.5628

Again the variance might be alarming to some people. For example, the track was more than a car length slower for 8th runs than it was for 7th runs.

It is also worth noting that for this group of cars it seems likely that Total Time awarded 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place correctly, without the need for additional racing.

Points scoring would have required additional racing to decide a single 3rd place winner. This is a good demonstration that large PPN charts are a good method for trimming, but not necessarily for awarding trophies.

Total time, on the other hand, ultimately races all cars head-to-head -- just not at the same time. If you can address all the timing-consistency concerns then it will be a very accurate method all by itself.

Finally, it is interesting that the Group 2 runs are much slower as a whole than the Group 1 runs -- 2.5057 versus 2.3739, probably over a foot of difference.