Awana Wheels

[Nimrod]

Is it legal to thin the wheels? Quite a few people in our club make them narrower by sanding the wheels. I just take an exacto knife and cut them on a drill. It does not mention anything in the rules about modifying wheels. It does mention that the wheels should be lightly sanded, but in my opinion that is only in regards to removing the defects from the wheels. I do not know how many people have sanded Awana wheels, but if you do not sand them lightly they will melt from heat, due to friction. The “Sand the wheels lightly” is just a tip so people do not blow out all there wheels. I feel that some people have translated the “lightly sand wheels to remove defect” into “do not modify the wheels at all” What is your opinion?

Steve

[gpraceman]

Most clubs I know will provide a set of rules that augment the little white sheet that comes with the Awana car kits, since those rules are quite limited and can be interpreted in different ways.

Personally, I do think the rules on that sheet are due for an overhaul. Please see this thread on the Awana forum:

http://www2.awana.org/cs/forums/78812/ShowPost.aspx

[Nimrod]

Interesting thread, but what I am trying to get at is not about amending the rules or changing the rules. I want people to look at the rules on the sheet given by Awana International and just use them. I know other groups (scouts) have different rules, but why are we entertaining them as ours? As far as an “Unfair Advantage” I do not know about your six year old, but mine can not make a car. He can barely draw in the lines. All the cars that win speed in our club are built by the fathers. The simple fact is that if you run a wider wheel base and slap some lead in the car you will probably place at Awana Grand Prix. Most people on this board have been building cars for awhile and won some trophies; this experience did not come from your son building a car himself. Kids have to be shown how to build and that comes from the father. A child’s skills of building a car comes from time, and when he is a father he will have all this non important pine car derby stuff stuck in his head and pass it along as well. Do not get me wrong, I understand the unfair advantage thing, but we all have the same unfair advantage according to the rules at Awana Grand Prix. I called the Awana office today and though the man I spoke with was very eager to help. He had no answer to my shaven wheels question. So are we to take it upon ourselves to interpolate the rules as we se fit or realize that if you apply to much pressure while sanding the wheels you will melt them and that is a tip.

Steve

[gpraceman]

Interesting thread, but what I am trying to get at is not about amending the rules or changing the rules. I want people to look at the rules on the sheet given by Awana International and just use them.

Of course, they should be used. But until they are clarified and refined by Awana International, they are very much subject to interpretation which calls for local clubs to provide some more specific guidance in their race rules.

I know other groups (scouts) have different rules, but why are we entertaining them as ours?

I am not quite sure that I follow you on that. The race itself is basically the same whether it is put on by a Cub Scout pack, Awana club, or other organization. The same issues apply, like allowable wheel treatment, lenght/width/height/weight limits, allowable lubricants, etc. I have found many Awana club's rules to be very similar to that of other organizations, and rightfullly so.

As far as an “Unfair Advantage” I do not know about your six year old, but mine can not make a car. He can barely draw in the lines.

To me that is a different subject. Personally, I do not feel that Sparkies or Cubbies should be allowed to race. We have instead encouraged interested Sparkies to talk dad (or mom) into entering in the open division race. The Sparky can help as they are able and usually the parent lets the Sparky race the car. This short circuits the argument about it really being an adult built car, since it is entered in the open division.

All the cars that win speed in our club are built by the fathers.

Sorry to hear that. Are there workshops put on to help encourage the kids getting involved in the building process? What do your club's rules say about clubber participation?

Most people on this board have been building cars for awhile and won some trophies; this experience did not come from your son building a car himself. Kids have to be shown how to build and that comes from the father. A child’s skills of building a car comes from time, and when he is a father he will have all this non important pine car derby stuff stuck in his head and pass it along as well.

Of course, it is intended to be an adult/child project. Most on this forum are of the opinion that the kids should do what they are capable of learing and doing for their age. As the kid gets older, the adult should relinquish more of the building process to the child. Eventually, the kid should be able to do most, if not all of the construction. With my 14 year old daughter, I have done very little on her past two cars. She ended up breaking our track record (3 times in a row) and winning 1st place speed with one and won a 2nd place design award with the other.

I would argue about the "non-important" remark, since I feel there is a lot to be learned. Not just about friction, potential energy, COG, etc., but life lessons like good sportsmanship and integrity in following the rules when others do not and in tangible skills learned like working with wood, using power and hand tools, using paints, etc.

Do not get me wrong, I understand the unfair advantage thing, but we all have the same unfair advantage according to the rules at Awana Grand Prix. I called the Awana office today and though the man I spoke with was very eager to help. He had no answer to my shaven wheels question. So are we to take it upon ourselves to interpolate the rules as we se fit or realize that if you apply to much pressure while sanding the wheels you will melt them and that is a tip.

Until the rules are clarified by Awana (which may never happen) then it is up to each club to evaluate what rules they will use for their race. The little white Racing Specifications sheet should be the starting point, but to only use that is asking for problems like the shaved/shaped wheels issue.

[Nimrod]

Gpraceman,
I agree 100%, the rules need to be overhauled.

“To eliminate vibration and friction, polish wheel axles with a light lubricant.” This is not a rule of any type, it is a tip. If you continue to read it says “Rough edges may be removed from wheels by placing them in a drill and sanding the treads lightly.” This is also a tip. This is where I am struggling with the interpolation of rules.

I do not know if you have ever noticed, but the wheels that you see sanded are not very smooth. They were overheated when sanded. They are all four different sizes, probably not very round and warped. Another thing that happens when you sand or cut the wheels the weight gets more distributed to the outside of the wheel which brings the wheel more out of balance.

My ministry in the Awana program is to distribute cars for the Grand Prix. If the clubbers want a design cut, I will cut the block of wood on site with a scroll saw. I sit at a table during the entire Awana session; I answer all the questions that parents and clubbers have and offer tips. During the final weigh in, I help the clubbers get cars up to weight by adding washers to the cars. I also check for graphite, crooked axles. Basically I do all I can do to help clubbers.

The first year I participated in the Awana Grand Prix, our car had sanded wheels and it won; they were hacked up and just could not have made a difference in speed. Our car was the only car with that feature; our car was also the only car with an expanded axle width and weight poured as well. The second year I cut the wheels cleaner with an exacto knife and mandrel, the problem with that was, at the start when the starting block went down the car would shift sideways. Once the wheels are cut you add space between the wheels and track strip, about a ½” inch. This third race I participated in I helped a boy named Simon without a father and an overworked mother with a car. First thing we did was pray for guidance and knowledge in building a car. With this car it was my design, the boy cut the car, and painted it. We shared the sanding and I did the axle holes and poured the lead. This car had a new design, cut wheels in the front and full wheels in the back which gave it a dragster look. To make up for the ½” inch of extra space between the track strip and wheel base I made the car more narrow in the front. Simon’s car won, but one thing I noticed was probably 30% of the other cars had heavily sanded wheels and out of the lot three ran well. 1st had cut front wheels, 2nd had standard wheels, 3rd had had sanded wheels, 4th had standard wheels.

Straight axles, weight placement, axle placement, polished axles, lubricant. These are the things that make the difference in a fast Awana Grand Prix car. Cut wheels just make people look at your car in Awe and they think that is what makes a car go fast.

Here is another problem that arises with the addition of additional rules; your club had extra rules in place, the cars that qualify for the state may be racing against cars that have no additional rules. Is that fair? If this is an unfair advantage, make it for all and let’s have a level playing field. In the mean time we can pressure Awana International to rewrite the rules. I think it is Awana Internationals obligation to take this next step.

Steve

[gpraceman]

“To eliminate vibration and friction, polish wheel axles with a light lubricant.” This is not a rule of any type, it is a tip. If you continue to read it says “Rough edges may be removed from wheels by placing them in a drill and sanding the treads lightly.” This is also a tip. This is where I am struggling with the interpolation of rules.

I fully agree. Unless they are listed in the "Racing Specifications" section of the sheet, it can be argued that these are not rules, but simply tips.

I do not know if you have ever noticed, but the wheels that you see sanded are not very smooth. They were overheated when sanded. They are all four different sizes, probably not very round and warped. Another thing that happens when you sand or cut the wheels the weight gets more distributed to the outside of the wheel which brings the wheel more out of balance.

We always wet sand with 600 grit wet/dry paper. As long as you keep the paper wet, don't press too hard, and stop periodically to check your work, you can get smoothly sanded wheels without melting the plastic.

I will cut the block of wood on site with a scroll saw.

Not to pick on you, but even a 3rd grader can do part of the cutting of the car with a scroll saw, with an adult's hands on the block to help guide it. The adult may need to do some of the curved cuts, but the kid should be able to be involved in the straight cuts. We start with a simple safety lesson on the scroll saw before cutting and make sure to have a pusher block available when needed to help keep fingers away from the blade.

Basically I do all I can do to help clubbers.

That is good that you help out in all of those ways. Make sure (if you don't already) to get the kids as much involved in the process, instead of them just standing around watching the work being done on their car.

First thing we did was pray for guidance and knowledge in building a car. With this car it was my design, the boy cut the car, and painted it. We shared the sanding and I did the axle holes and poured the lead. This car had a new design, cut wheels in the front and full wheels in the back which gave it a dragster look.

It sounds like he was well involved with his car, which is great. To start off with a prayer is great as well! I would suggest that you let the kids pick their design. I put together a book of design templates (from the Pinewood Derby SuperSite) to help those kids that have no idea what design they want. A good question to ask them is if they want to go for design or speed, then steer them to the suitable designs.

Here is another problem that arises with the addition of additional rules; your club had extra rules in place, the cars that qualify for the state may be racing against cars that have no additional rules. Is that fair? If this is an unfair advantage, make it for all and let’s have a level playing field. In the mean time we can pressure Awana International to rewrite the rules. I think it is Awana Internationals obligation to take this next step.

If you do have a state or regional race (we did not while we were in San Diego, but have a regional race here in Colorado), you should get a copy of those rules and integrate them into your club's rules. It is OK to be stricter than the regional/state rules, but not more lenient, so that a car that passes inspection in your local race will not be rejected in the regional/state race. However, I would talk to your Awana Missionary if the state/regional rules are too lenient. If they allow shaped/shaved wheels and are not willing to change their rules, then you will have to decide whether you will follow suit with your local rules. You could still prohibit the shaped/shaved wheels at your local race as long as it is not forbidden to make changes to the car for the regional/state race.

Personally, I think that little is accomplised by having regional/state/national races with a faith based organization like Awana. The main focus of faith based organizations is to spread the Gospel message. This is much easier done at the local level than at a higher level race. I think this is why many Awana Missionaries want to have nothing to do with a regional/state race.

I am trying to find out who in Awana may be in a position to change the rules that come with the car kits. However, this time of year is very busy for me, so I have not had time to pursue it. I have had discussions with Steve Oxford, from our missionary board, and he is trying to make some inquiries.